Once again I am delving into the psychological issues of the Real Housewives of Bravo television. Again I must preface my post with a disclaimer that while I have a legitimate psychology degree, I am not a mental health professional. My conclusions can only be based on what I see and reliable sources, such as direct interview, so take the information with a grain of salt. These posts are intended for entertainment purposes only, if you are not entertained I apologize.
Today I am examining the behavior of Caroline Manzo, one of the stars of The Real Housewives of New Jersey on Bravo. It is easy to see that Caroline is devoted to her family, extremely devoted. It is also easy to see she has some serious control issues. She also seems to be judgmental, rigid and moralistic. Bear with me here but I see that she is a mother, the head of her family, that is her job and that is her obsession. I think she has Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder that centers on that, her utter devotion to and control of her family.
Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is a pervasive character disturbance involving one’s generalized style and beliefs in the way one relates to themselves and the world. Persons with OCPD are typically deeply entrenched in their dysfunctional beliefs and genuinely see their way of functioning as the correct way. They tend to be deeply committed to their own beliefs and patterns, resistant to accepting anyone or anything that does not adhere to this rigidly held belief system. Most often, people with OCPD place blame for their unhappiness on external circumstances. people or their environment but with OCPD it is one’s dysfunctional philosophy which produces anxiety, anguish and frustration.
With Caroline, we see her with her family, always being the authority. Her way is the only way. Her children must pursue goals in her manner. Lauren must take certain beauty classes, Albie must continue with the law regardless of struggle, Christopher will be in the family business, somehow Caroline will make sure these events occur. Supportive? Yes. Also a bit controlling and overly involved in my opinion. These *children* are all in their twenties and still living at home, throwing ham and living their lives with their parents supervision and guidance. Whenever one of the *kids* deviates from the path that has been set out for them we see Caroline swoop in and play fixer. They are not allowed to fail or learn from their own mistakes, they are lectured and supported to smooth and bolster them to continue on the given path.
Although rarely observed by others, the experience of inner turmoil within this syndrome is immense. As much as others are often victimized by OCPD’s oppressive and demanding style, the high standards often apply two-fold within the OCPD sufferers’ expectations directed toward themselves. It is not uncommon for a person with OCPD to feel deeply entrenched in the belief that they are a *good person*. This belief can paradoxically often lead to feelings of depression and disappointment. The high standards which their idealized self is expected to live up to are often far beyond the capacity for any human being to consistently fulfill. Since ones humanness prevents an OCPD sufferer from living according his own high standards, a tremendous amount of self-hatred is imposed.
Within the OCPD population is a cognitive style characterized by dichotomous thinking. Dichotomous thinking is the tendency to categorize all aspects of life into one of two perspectives, all good or all bad. The world is viewed predominantly through clearly defined black and white realms. All that is pure and wholesome is valued. It can take only one stain or blemish to have the person completely find justification in discarding anything which evidences a flaw.
I think that is really the way Caroline is. She barely knew Danielle yet finding out she had a tainted past sent Caroline into a tizzy. Immediately she did not want anything to do with Danielle or for Danielle to have anything to do with her family, friends or intimate social circle. She did not give Danielle a chance to explain, judging her without hesitation. When Jacqueline continued to be friends with her, she railed that Danielle was causing a split in her family and that Jac was allowing Danielle to influence everything. To be frank, Caroline’s focus on Danielle is every bit as much to blame for that as Jac’s friendship with Danielle was. It is really out of line to tell other adults who they may or may not associate with. Caroline hammered and hammered away at the situation until she got her way.
For persons with OCPD, facts and confidence are all too often turned into I’m RIGHT and your WRONG. The way I see it represents the way it is, end of story. For others, refusing to yield to the correct perspective often entails encountering tension and discord. This manifestation of OCPD entails one’s adamantly guarding his dogmatic beliefs to such a degree that casual conversation often converts minor disagreements into heated debates. The relative importance of any topic rarely is of consequence in determining the degree of the intensity expressed in the midst of the debate. For the person who experiences OCPD, abstract ideals and moral standards become rigidly held truths.
Caroline is very rigid indeed. She never admits to any mistake in judgement or apologizes for any turmoil she causes those around her. I realize many of you may agree with Caroline and her assessments but whether she is right in her judgements or not is beside the point. The fact remains that she judges people harshly, they are either good or bad and nothing will change that view, she then bullies those in her circle to think exactly as she does.
She is blind to flaws within her family or friends, their bad behavior is always excused or justified. Ashley can assault Danielle and she is merely defending the family. Christopher can do a stripper car wash and he is an over eager go-getter, wink wink. Teresa can flip a table and pot stir fights and she is only a passionate woman or just being *Teresa*, giggle. Those bad behaviors are merely silly or justified. Point this out to her and if you push her, she will continue to defend their bad behavior. Even if she has to scream, cry and rage at you to do it, her friends and family are never wrong.
It would not be unusual for an OCPD sufferer to literally take delight in being wronged, since it affords them, what they perceive, as the justified opportunity to deliver a steep punishment. The term righteous indignation was probably conceived with this perspective in mind. Crossing a person with OCPD provides her the license to hold a grudge and forever hold your mistake over your head.
I feel with Danielle, Caroline takes joy in the conflict. She loves blaming everything on her. It gives her someone to make her look better in life. She is clearly superior to this *garbage* in her mind. I fail to see how anyone can see this play of righteousness as being healthy. She likes to play victim, to see her family as innocent and good and Danielle or any of her supporters as all bad.
In a conflict with someone who has OCPD, the non-OCPD person might be motivated to desperately seek closure. In the process of attempting conflict resolution, the non-OCPD might discover that every minute the quagmire becomes deeper and deeper. It is almost as if the mere effort to find resolution is a punishable offense. In a close relationship, encountering this zone of contempt is bewildering and frightening. All one wants to do is to bring this controversy to an end, and then, you are punished for not being willing to deal with the issue at hand. Within this zone, the person with OCPD feels a great need to bring about absolute clarity for the issue to be resolved. Once again this need for the perfect resolution creates a seemingly never ending tweaking of the issues. Agreeing to disagree is rarely a reasonable solution and often not in the scope of the OCPD’s world.
This really is Caroline. She will not let the Danielle thing go. As obsessed as Danielle is with the Manzos, Caroline and her crew are always talking about her. The healthy person would simply move on, refuse to engage. Caroline takes the more passive aggressive approach, pretending to be trying to move on but not really. She stews about it and she also contributes to other’s obsessions such as Teresa and Jacqueline. You can see the smirky glee at every report of Danielle, the I told you so attitude. She then of course says she did not want to talk about her but we all know if Caroline did not want Danielle discussed she would not be, Caroline always controls things.
OCPD sufferer feels that a lack of genuineness is wrong and being totally open, no matter what the consequence, is the only option. If others are offended by what I say, too bad for them. Moral righteousness and preaching morality as a dogmatic necessity is not an uncommon expression of OCPD. Both of these realms are steeped in the potential for the OCPD sufferer’s truth to override consideration and respect.
Caroline has no issues being blunt to the point of being hurtful. I think she broke Jacqueline down with this method. I also saw this in action by Caroline taking Danielle’s book around New Jersey, informing everyone that she knew about Danielle’s transgressions. Not necessary, she had no call to smear anyone whether it was true or not. What kind of person delights in trying to ruin another person’s reputation, particularly one with children who will be hurt by it? Regardless of Danielle’s past it was uncalled for and it was not Caroline’s business to broadcast Danielle’s issues to the world.
Overall I feel that Caroline is ruled by this moral indignation of her form of OCPD. I feel she is blind to the flaws of who she has already deemed as good and worthy individuals. I feel no matter what someone she has deemed as bad or outside of her circle does that they will remain bad and therefore, the enemy. I feel she controls her family and friends and that she always needs to get her way. I also feel she is unforgiving and inflexible to anyone who she feels is not one of *hers*. I feel that she systematically will try to get rid of anyone who might try to *contaminate* her perfect group, her family. The maintenance of this group’s goodness is her job and keeping them on the right path is her only responsibility.
Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of preoccupation with perfectionism, and mental and interpersonal control. This comes at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency. It is present in a variety of contexts as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
- Is preoccupied with details, rules, lists, order, organization, or schedules to the extent that the major point of the activity is lost
- Shows perfectionism that interferes with task completion
- Is excessively devoted to work (in Caroline’s case, family) to the exclusion of leisure activities and friendships
- Is overconscientious, scrupulous, and inflexible about matters of morality, ethics, or values
- Is unable to discard worn-out or worthless objects even when they have no sentimental value
- Is reluctant to delegate tasks or to work with others unless they submit to exactly his or her way of doing things
- Adopts a miserly spending style toward both self and others; money is viewed as something to be hoarded for future catastrophes.
- Shows rigidity and stubbornness
For anyone having navigational issues here are the links to the other discussions on the housewives of New Jersey:
https://angelofdevs.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/rhonjs-danielle-staub-antisocial-personality-disorder/
https://angelofdevs.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/rhonjs-dina-manzo-functioning-well/
A Real Housewife's View 
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If Caroline is so righteous I wonder how she justifies her families relationshio with Bernie Kerik, convicted felon. The Manzos are not mentioned in this article but I read last year that they are friends. It may have even been mentioned on the RH.
I feel it fits in with Carolines if you are with me you are good no matter what but if you are outside my circle you are bad no matter what mentality. She is only morally righteous if you are not under her protection as a personal friend or family member. It makes no sense of course but that is part of her particular psychological disorder.
Well, I come from an Italian family, and I kind of think that some of what you’re describing just Mediterranean culture. For a lot of Italians, family is everything, and those who are in our circle of family & friends can basically do no wrong. Anyone outside of the circle can be banished at the drop of a hat. A lot of what you describe as Caroline’s “OCPD” behavior just sounds Italian to me.
You say you have a legitimate psychology degree but are not practicing? Is your degree at the Bachelor level or do you have a Doctorate? There is quite a difference, and I’m sure other readers are as curious as I am.
Thanks.
I have a bachelors degree and am currently about halfway to a master’s degree.
That’s interesting. Most programs would not tolerate a student “diagnosing” over the internet, but of course, even a person at the master’s level isn’t qualified to make official diagnoses. I realize that this is “for entertainment purposes”, but these are real human beings, and the field of psychology, which I am passionate about, isn’t about “entertainment”, but about furthering the science of human behavior and helping others when we can.
I am not a current student and this is entertaining for me, I am sharing it because others seem to enjoy it too. I suggest if it irritates your particular passion about the science of psychology, ignore it and move on. No one is forced to be here and I am not claiming to be presenting true science with the capital T, this is not a psychology course it is a mere blog. People can take from it what they will. Life does not always have to be so serious.
When a blogger specifically says, up front, in effect, “Don’t take me seriously!” it is then tremendously irritating and frustrating that some readers will (maddeningly! perversely!) take that blogger to task for being “not professional,” or “not an expert.”
Thanks Janean. I could not have said it better myself.
As far as MJS and her passive aggressive speculation that the blog fills my narcissistic deficits, that seems to be a common and familiar attack lately. This blog is not about me nor is it an exercise in personal narcissism. I think a Jill *friend* was the last one to speculate in that direction and that went just as well so no doubt this person saw it as a perfect way to make trouble because they do not approve of me or my blog here.
I think it was a petty attack from a so-called *professional*. By the way, it is very easy to toss credentials around when you don’t have to prove anything. I am honest, I do not claim to be a professional but obviously it is easy enough to do so under an anonymous name when you want to add false legitimacy to trolling behavior.
A real professional wouldn’t need to attack a blogger in this manner nor would they feel comfortable doing so. If I am so wrong to throw out opinions, wouldn’t that make her little dig at me every bit as unprofessional? Wouldn’t that make her devotion to real science and psychology used only for helping others argument null?
Just so everyone is clear, I will block trolls. I have been very tolerant and I DO NOT mind disagreement at all. I like different opinions and genuine input. I do not think I have all the answers and I respect other people’s views and opinions. People who are here merely to attack the blog’s existence or me as a human being because I write things they don’t like can play elsewhere.
I will not tolerate people snarking about my mental health status merely because they do not approve of my blog, they do not know me in any way. I am not a real housewife nor is my life open for dissection on national TV. I am also tired of defending my blog’s existence. It is here to stay and if it is so distasteful then don’t read it.
Basically be respectful. You have very free rein here and I want to keep it that way because I like the free exchange of ideas.
Hello MJS, Sadly you miss the point of this blog, it is an open exchange of ideas and thoughts, you are welcome to go to Popeater and join the gang there. We respect each other here.
None of the women she is diagnosing are under her care. There is no breach of confidence. Her point of view is enlightening about others in our lives, I’ll say, as well as the women offered up to us on these mesmerizing shows. I feel peaceful reading her posts because of her knowledge and display of the particular points of diagnosing. The comments by the regulars are also great to read, as they add and subtract, agree and differ. This is way more fun than those regular entertainment blogs.
MJS:
I personally believe you have a legitimate question and the right to ask it.
I also happen to agree with the blogger {MJS} diagnosis of Caroline’s personality. No need to hold a ‘Masters Degree’ to find it relevant and quite ‘spot-on’. Entertainment purposes or not, it’s educational and a contribution.
angelof devs:
I find this site informative and articulate. Great job! Keep it up!
In my opinion , you need a ‘thicker skin’. If you claim your open to all viewpoints other than your own, there should never be a reason to block anyone. You are unable to verify if the comment is ‘genuine’ , let alone, ‘random-trolling’.
A quote I try to live by –
” I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it”.
Voltaire
Correction – {angelofdevs}
Well, I come from an Italian family, and I kind of think that some of what you’re describing just Mediterranean culture. For a lot of Italians, family is everything, and those who are in our circle of family & friends can basically do no wrong. Anyone outside of the circle can be banished at the drop of a hat. A lot of what you describe as Caroline’s “OCPD” behavior just sounds Italian to me.
I thought she was insane when she went to plead Ashley case and instead called Danielle garbage! that was just wrong!
Fascinating! Thanks for this very detailed explanation. Sadly enough, I see the exact same characteristics in my family and understand a bit better the psyche of someone who has this disorder. It’s actually sad, because people who suffer from any form of OCPD really do think they are right about everything, and will probably never change their mind-ever.
Reading this was scary for me to – the words ‘my mom!’ kept flashing into my head. Especially the parts about moral indignation and vindication. It’s so exhausting hearing my mom relentless quest to have wrongs against her ‘righted’
I am married to a person who I believe has OCPD and while he is a “good” person, his personality makes life so intolerable that I often fantasize committing suicide. I have thought of divorce, but he would make the process so poisonous that I do not think I could tolerate that either. (We have four children and a beloved dog that I could not bear to hurt even though they must surely hurt so much because of my relationship with their father. Unlike Caroline, he does not think they are good enough and can do no wrong, as she seems to feel about her children. Instead, he blames me for creating their problems..
I urge anyone in a relationship with someone with OCPD to run..not walk away…and to never have children with such a personality type, no matter what an upright citizen that person might be. It will be a life of misery.
Sounds like Caroline, from what we see on the show. Love her adult kids, but they are adults, who need to fly the coup. At least they are working–I have family members who would tolerate laziness, sleeping in late, refusal to work, etc. I think Caroline wants to continue to mother someone, something. Her husband–she can not mother–and she knows it. So, only the children are left–until one of her children marry and have grandchildren she can play mother hen to. I don’t think Caroline is too different than lots of other women in the world. I don’t think most people ARE fair in all situations. I think most people justify behavior of family and friends–til death–whether they are right or wrong, especially those who live in collective families or societies, like the Manzos. Good post–love your insight.
any interesting add on to your assessment is that Caroline’s husband works over sixteen hours a day and would only consider cutting back to twelve hours. He has been doing this for thirty years.
That means he has avoided spending time with her the whole marriage. Says a lot about him liking her company, doesn’t it???? Too much control and he’s out of there.
I think her husband has some control issues as well. Notice how Caroline backs down when it comes to him. She never backs down with anyone else. She wants his approval, his time, and his attention. And although he seems to love her very much, I can tell that he withholds and becomes distant often when dealing with her. And that’s a painful thing for someone like Caroline.
I never understood why Caroline was so popular and had so many fans. She always reminded me of The Godfather the way she always said, “You mess with my family. You mess with me.” She comes across as very controlling, rigid and unforgiving. We never see her on the show doing anything but getting into the business of her adult children, her sister, her sister in laws and her husband. She clearly fits the profile of a Mafia wife or the matriarch of a dysfunctional family. Even though her kids are grown, she expects them to live under her thumb if not under her roof the rest of their lives. She believes all of her family members should be loyal to the family and if they are permitted friends, Caroline must approve of them. I’m sure Jacqueline’s sudden dropping of Danielle was not because her husband asked her not to see her but because Caroline said she was going to cut her out of the family if she had anything to do with Danielle. I think she also brainwashed Dina into having nothing to do with Danielle this season. Last season both Jacqueline and Dina said they wanted to give Danielle another chance.
This season Dina is suddenly all about her cats and psychics and having peace in her life. Dina strikes me as someone who could easily be brainwashed by an older sister whom she considers wise and smarter than her. Dina’s excuse that she was getting Danielle out of her life by leaving the show seemed hollow to me. I think Caroline cooked it up, thinking Dina was so popular that Bravo would get rid of Danielle to have Dina back.
I wonder how Caroline is going to react to news reports that her brother Joe is being accused of forgery and hiding money. Of course, she will defend him to the public but I wonder what she will say to his face. Afterall, he is embarassing her and tarnishing the family name.
http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/07/05/teresa-guidices-husband-accused-of-forgery-hiding-money/
Joe is NOT Caroline’s brother. They are not related in any way.
Thank you for clarifying that Joe and Theresa are not related to Caroline. I thought Caroline, Dina, Jacqueline and Theresa were all related by marriage except for Danielle, who was a friend of Jacqueline’s. Caroline treats Theresa as if she is a member of the family, even excusing her being late to her dinner parties or lunches. I am surprised because I didn’t know Caroline had any friends. I thought Caroline only tolerated and excused the bad behavior of her family.
I think Caroline considers them like family, they are definitely part of her inner circle.
From what I can understand, Teresa and Dina have been friends for over 15 years.
I think it is also very interesting that several Bravo housewives have been in trouble with the law. Danielle is a convicted felon. Kelly was arrested and convicted for assaulting her fiancee at the time in 2009. Sonya was arrested in June 2010 on a DUI. Jacqueline’s daughter, Ashley, was arrested and convicted of assaulting Danielle while filming this season. Both Theresa and Jacqueline were also arrested for the attack on Danielle but those charges were dropped. Now Theresa’s husband is being investigated by the IRS and other authorities on forging a loan for $1 million and hiding money which if convicted could land him in a federal prison. Theresa might end up being charged also.
And let’s not forget that Caroline’s father-in-law “Tiny Manzo” or something like that was found “rubbed out” aka “dead” and naked in the trunk of his car. He was managing a casino for a well-known Mafia king-pin and the rumor was that Manzo and another associate were skimming money. They were both killed….and the nakedness was a message from the mob that you no longer have anywhere to hide the money! When this was mentioned on one of the Season finales Caroline went all ape-crazy–crying, seething with anger…fits right in with the OCD description—she cannot come to grips with and refuses to consider that her father-in-law was mobbed up. Heck, I still think they are mobbed up. Here’s a copy of what was in the NY Daily News prior to the start of the RHONJ:
“Albert (Tiny) Manzo, was executed mob-style in August 1983, after he and Gambino family soldier Peter A. Campisi were suspected of skimming from a mob casino on Staten Island.
“A couple of weeks later, they found Tiny Manzo in the trunk of his car,” recalled Robert Buccino, a New Jersey organized crime expert.
The 350-pound mobster took four slugs to his torso. His naked body – the arms and legs bound in plastic – was discovered in the trunk of his parked Lincoln-Continental outside a supermarket in Hillside, N.J.
The killing was never solved.
Campisi, a made man and Tiny’s partner in the casino, suffered a similar fate, Buccino recalled.”
Caroline describes the murder as a random killing—yeah, right, Caroline–you just go on deluding yourself, but it is obvious to anyone with an iota of common sense that this was indeed a Mafia rub out.
I don’t feel this is OCD. It is flat denial in her mind.
Angelofdevs – thanks so much for this profile on Caroline; it is really enlightening. I have to admit that the first time I watched the show, my reaction was an intense dislike for Caroline and her bullying ‘thicker than thieves’ attitidue about her family. After a few episodes, however, I actually started to like her. I thought she was the most down-to-earth of the wives and
most of what she said was making pretty good sense to me. Actually, I was feeling like a pretty crumby mother because I didn’t involve myself in my own children’s lives compared to the likes of Caroline. So reading your insights, I am now vindicated and probably more okay than I thought. It is scarey how my inital gut feelings to someone’s initial persona get turned around the more I watch them. I don’t know how to judge anyone anymore…..it gets pretty confusing.
I think Caroline firmly believes she is doing the right thing at all times, it is a dangerous path because of course we cannot be right all of the time. People must be a bit more flexible.
I try not to judge moms because it is a tough job. I do think as important as loving your children is allowing them a bit of room to spread their wings. We cannot truly grow as people if we are not allowed to fail, pick ourselves up and solve things on our own.
You cannot treat your children the same throughout their lives, you have to adapt to the changes that happen so they can grow with some independence. You always love them but you have to do it without smothering.
Well said as usual….!
Amen to that. Good observation.
What can be done for Danielle’s children if anything. She seems to be the most damaging mother after Teressa.
hmm, I’m not sure I agree with you on this one. This is the first post that i sense more of a personal dislike for the person being assessed thus a less objective assessment. From what we have all been exposed to though the show I don’t see Caroline meeting more than 3 out of your list of 8 criteria for your “diagnosis’!
I completely disagree with your lambasting Caroline over “the book”. Danielle is a co-worker to Caroline BUT as part of the job they would be around each other in intimate settings including children ,family & each others homes. To find out that this woman was convicted of kidnapping, drug trafficking & prostitution isn’t the same as a mere traffic ticket or some lesser crime. these are very serious crimes. Danielle COULD have handled the news that the book was now known & her past being brought forward with humility. Had she calmly explained that she made a mistake at a low point in her life, taken ownership of her mistakes then it would be easier to believe she was actually contrite & a changed person. But, no-instead she screams & hollers about how others are trying to ruin her by talking about a PUBLISHED BOOK that reveals her sordid past. Caroline displayed what I consider to be the healthiest view of Danielle! Her BS detector was ringing off the hook and for good reason!
I also wonder why you don’t give Caroline “credit” for her stance on standing back & letting ALbie handle his fight re: his difficulty with his school. Surely if Caroline was the obsessively controlling woman you “diagnose” her as there is no way she would have been able to display restraint in such a painful situation regarding her son. This example deflates your diagnosis in of itself.
I live in the Northeast & there are many women who display the same mildly obsessive devotion to their children/family-some with more vehemence than others. That their pride & feeling of worth comes solely as a protector, facilitator of family unity may bring up the question of how comfortable they are without the “brood”, with their own selves. Often this type of matriarch is present within families of certain religions & cultural backgrounds as well. It is the Mother’s ‘place” to tend to all the needs & raising of the children, to bring family together around the dinner table, create & maintain family ritual. I think it is this role that Caroline is devoted to & we have seen her grappling with the loss of that as she feels her children growing beyond needing her so much.
It’s that humbling combination of pride in your children’s growth & success coupled with sadness at the loss of being needed that makes Caroline (in my opinion) relatable. The fact that she recognizes and gives voice to that struggle makes her less obsessed as you claim & more vulnerable instead.
Kat 127, I respectively disagree with your diagnosis. I hardly call a woman who has said many times, “if you mess with my family, you mess with me” as exhibiting vulnerability. I understand being the matriarch of a family and being devoted to your family, but there is also understanding that your children need to leave the household, make mistakes and start living an adult life. Caroline is a prime example of a woman who is extremely obsessive about her family’s image and she has allowed that to define her. It will be interesting to see what happens when her children are no longer part of the household and Caroline is left with her married life.
I wouldn’t dream of diagnosing anyone! I’m offering my opinion based on observing the same snippets of one person’s behavior. The vulnerability I mentioned was related to Caroline’s own words describing her struggle with empty nest syndrome, clearly not something a person obsessed with presenting a facade of control would do.
As to defending her family on a tv show, who wouldn’t? I think Bravo made a tactical error in hiring on so many members of a tight clan. Would you go on national tv & say bad things about your children or your sister? I wouldn’t. Perhaps that’s why they included the dreadful Danielle in the line up. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it was Bravo who uncovered “the book” & leaked it to the Manzo’s et al. They wanted drama & boy, did they get it. Unfortunately for them I don’t think they were totally prepared for just how much of a nutjob that woman is. they’ll have to drag her kicking & screaming from the spotlight they have provided her monstrous ego.
Even in her empty nest syndrome *vulnerability* she was trying to control. She was angling to have her husband retire. Control can be wielded through passivity as well as through more direct measures. Guilt is a powerful weapon for a mother or wife. Do you honestly not see that she tries to control people? Does one incidence of vulnerability, if it even was, that significant overall?
Sorry for thinking your opinion was a diagnosis, but I get confused when people use sentence fragments like, “Surely if Caroline was the obsessively controlling woman you “diagnose” her as there is no way she would have been able to display restraint in such a painful situation regarding her son,” as an absolute statement rather than an opinion. As far as Danielle is concerned, I believe this is a blog posting on Caroline, not Danielle. It seems that you are more interested in “lambasting” Danielle. FYI, her post is further down the page, for your reading pleasure.
Danielle’s crimes were long past and frankly the most dangerous we have seen her has been after the confrontation about her past. I do not excuse Danielle’s behavior at all and she is clearly dangerous at this point but the Manzo group have handled it in the worst way possible and have upped the drama themselves. There was no reason to tell the entire town about Danielle through gossiping at a hair salon.
I don’t get a lot of where you are coming from Kat, I am not giving or taking away credit from anyone. I am calling behaviors and tendencies how I see them. You obviously are very invested in Caroline, you like her and find her relatable. Great. I am not judging her or trying to be mean, I am outlining why I feel she is struggling with a personality issue.
I do think there is a big difference between nurturing and smothering and I stand by my statements that people need to adapt their parenting as their children grow. I do think that Caroline feels she is doing best by her children but I do think at their respective ages they should be more independent and she should be encouraging that as much as she can. I think in the Albie situation her husband Albert clearly had to rein her in, sorry if you saw it differently. I also feel she turns a blind eye to anything within the family that does not meet her moral standards, for instance if Danielle had a child who was doing a stripper type car wash we would hear the apple does not fall too far from the tree. When Christopher does it, that is fine and we got an indulgent grin about it, she then made sure he was drawn into Brownstone business once again, right?
Again I am not taking any of this personally but clearly you are. I am not talking about you or your Northeastern friends, nor am I casting judgement. You can raise your children and run your families as you will. I will analyze the housewives as I see them, sorry if it offends you on a personal level.
I have to laugh! I’m not taking this personally at all. Apparently I’m not expressing myself well.
I had enjoyed some of your other posts & felt they were more accurate to the person being discussed. I happen to feel you are stretching a bit with this post. Originally I had thought of your blog as professional. Perhaps my sense that your injecting your personal feelings toward Caroline into your “analysis” comes from reading your comments elsewhere on the web about the housewives you go on to analyze .These comments are mean spirited at best. Calling LuAnn “LuMan”, saying Kelly is “crazy” & “smelly with bad hair”, saying Ashley has a “fat face” & most of your nasty comments directed toward Jill….. &there are plenty more examples.
Of course you are entitled to your opinions, however when you are running a blog claiming your personal feelings don’t come into play WHILE you are making rude & quite personal comments about the women you are analyzing -I have to cry foul.
Hmmm someone is stalking my twitter posts I see. I have never once claimed to be a professional anything. I do see that you are taking this quite seriously and yes personally. I am impartial when here but I am entitled to discuss what I want, how I want, elsewhere. Sadly I see you cannot comprehend that. Oh and where are all these super rude Caroline comments? I can also see your little passive aggressive routine as I am sure everyone else here can. Again if you feel I am mean spirited and don’t enjoy my blog I apologize but no one is forcing you to read it.
I can’t speak to the personality disorder because I do not have a psychology degree, but I agree with what you say about Caroline’s behavior. She does smother her adult children. She wants them to be dependent on her because she lives through them and her husband and she has no life of her own. She seems very codependent. I believe Caroline came from a dysfunctional home and she is authoritorian, rigid and strict like her parents. I was shocked that Caroline and Dina came from a family of 11 children. According to Dina, their parents gave them “Italian beatings” if they didn’t obey. Dina told Jacqueline she did what her parents told her to for fear of giving a beating. She suggested Jacqueline beat Ashley.
In dysfunctional homes, children are treated like possessions, they all have a role in the family and the parents encourage them to be dependent and dictate how they should live their lives. They also expect them to always be loyal to the family and protect the family. They aren’t encouraged to have friends outside of the family. They all get in each other’s business and have no boundaries.
In functional homes, children are treated like individuals, and they are encouraged to be independent, have their own friends, learn from their mistakes and go out on their own at 18.
Caroline treats her adult children like they are children and not adults and they act like children rather than adults by living at home, playing the ham game as you said and allowing Caroline to tell them what to do. Chris and Jacqueline treat Ashley like she is a child. They don’t require her to go to college or get a job and seem happy that she is still living at home although she is 18. My husband and I and all of our siblings were raised to be independent, think for ourselves and make our own choices and learn from our mistakes. We all wanted to leave home at 18, not because we didn’t love our parents, but because we wanted to be self supporting and live our own lives. We worked our way through college, made our own way and mistakes and didn’t expect our parents to bail us out. We were proud that we could make it on our own.
Caroline goes into a rage if Danielle or anyone else criticizes or judges a member of her family or Theresa, but she finds it perfectly okay for her to call Danielle “garbage” and for Theresa to call Danielle “a prostitution whore” and “bitch” and Ashley to threaten and harass Danielle because as you said she is “protecting her family.” I find this as absurd as Danielle saying she needed protection from the Manzos. They sound like members of the Mafia. How is sending threatening emails to Danielle and starting a hate club on Facebook “protecting her family?” I don’t see why an 18 year old who isn’t even related to them by blood has to “protect the family” anyway. It isn’t her job and it is none of her business.
Why do you have to lawyer up for Caroline? Did you read the story about one of the Manzo family friends, Bernie Kerik?. His crimes were a lot more egregious than Danielle’s and far more current. I’ve never seen Carolyn acknowedge his crimes or explain why they are friends with a convicted felon of such notoriety. Perhaps it falls into that whole gangster myth she likes to portray.
Maybe it’s because any alleged crimes are not hers, Karen. You seem to be fixated on trashing these people on a personal level instead of enjoying the entertainment that this blog can provide. Try posting your articles on TMZ instead.
NJfan, I wonder why you’re so offended FOR the NJHW? If you don’t like my comments you don’t have to read them. They are clearly identified by my name. Thank you and have a great day.
Really, truly, you must be accurate when you claim knowledge of Danielle’s convictions—and you are wrong…careless and reckless with the facts! I am no fan of Danielle’s..quite the contrary. But I am an attorney and I take criminal convictions seriously. Danielle was convicted of a single count of extortion…not prostitution, not kidnapping, not drug trafficking—she was placed on 5 years of probation. A simple Google search would have provided you with the truth—but instead you espouse the same untruths that the Manzo clan does. Danielle, as crazy as she is, has the right to enraged at the false rumors and facts spread about her. After 25 years, and fulfilling her sentence, Danielle is entitled to put the past behind her….but the Manzo clan won’t let her, yet they want to keep the murder of Tiny Manzo and his alleged mob connections in the past—not open for discussion by Caroline—when the subject was raised—utter outrage from Caroline…she’ a total hypocrite.
I firmly believe that the Manzo family was using exposure on the show to get the letter from the school that Albie needed. I also think this diagnosis was spot on. I did like Caroline from the jump and her attitude towards Teresas behavior is inconsistent with what she expects from others. Example, Ashley is 18 and gave Danielle “exactly what she wanted”, while Teresa causing the fight and chasing through the country club is not even addressed by her.
I agree – and Albie was going to Fordham Law. It’s not an easy school to get into, let alone excel at. If Albie (whom I believe to still be nursing) had disclosed a learning disability, he would have never got in. Instead of saying that he didn’t have what it took to suceed there, it was the school’s fault. I went to Fordham undergrad (and know how hard that was), and my older cousin went to undergrad and Fordham Law – he said he never went to bed prior to midnight – yet Albie, with a learning disability, had time to film a reality series?
Excellent comment and I totally agree with your assessment…..I see her as a great mother and wife who loves her family.
kat: I completely disagree with you. Danielle’s past is nobody’s business and she does not owe Caroline, Dina, Teresa, or anyone else for that matter any explaination. Caroline and her family had no right to prance around town with that book showing it to whoever would listen, Caroline is the deffinitely the ringmaster and puppeteer of the group. When she “invited” Danielle to the restaurant to see if she could settle things before they went to court on the matter of Ashley pulling her hair, instead of her appealing to Danielle citing the fact that she experienced similar problems in her youth; Caroline called her “garbage”. Caroline lowered herself to namecalling when Danielle wouldn’t bow to her orders for her to drop the case; I guess she never heard the old saying “you catch more flies with sugar than shit”. All Caroline wanted was for Danielle to be intimidated by her and she didn’t get what she came there for…good for Danielle; she gave as good as she got. She tried to blame Danielle for Dina leaving the show, but my understanding is that Dina’s ex-husband didn’t want their daughter on the show, Dina tried the same thing when she invited Danielle to the restaurant to draw “her” bounderies and once again she got her butt handed to her on a platter, and again….good for Danielle. I will agree that Danielle has issues; but that is NOT for Mob Boss Caroline and her mafia affiliated family to judge.
Right – they didn’t call Danielle to actually TALK to her – they wanted to insult her and show their superiority. I don’t think Caroline actually ever talks to anyone – it’s all hyperbole and mismatched metaphors – “we’re at the OK Corral, buckle up”? – I blame that on a Jersey public education. tee hee.
So are you saying that Bethenny Frankel and Caroline Manzo suffer from the same personality disorder?
I (respectfully) totally 100% disagree with this assessment.
Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder can be manifested in many, many, MANY different ways.
And please tell us which college you received your doctorate from?
face it, this one’s actually sane (if a bit clannish)
Danielle is a snake. Have you dissected her personality? I will have to check. You said Bethenny was OCD but you have painted Caroline as a monster. Admittedly she has issues. She comes from a place of love (and perhaps insecurity) and I believe she really wants the best for her family, albeit what she thinks is best.
No matter Caroline’s personality traits I commend her for her stance about Danielle. I only wish Jacqueline had paid attention. She would have spared Ashley a great deal of pain. As mother’s go, I would want to be Caroline’s daughter.
Yes Beth and Caroline (as well as Vicki Gunvalson) share a category of personality disorder. They have obvious control issues, the root of obsessive compulsive personality disorder. Disorders do not always manifest the same for those involved.
Bethenny’s manifests in a much different way, in self judgement and career obsession as her career has been her reflection of her self worth. Her disorder manifests more on self protection and perfectionism. She also has self awareness and has sought treatment and accordingly, we can see marked inprovements in her life.
Caroline’s career is being a mom and thus her family is her obsession, they are her reflection. Her disorder is more focused on morality and overprotecting her family. Caroline thinks she is fine and therefore is in a different place with her disorder.
For the record I do not dislike Caroline Manzo, I am listing what I have observed in her behaviorally. I am always surprised how many people read hate or judgement into what is merely a description of why I think they have a particular personality disorder. I have done the same thing for every housewife. If you disagree with what I have said I understand but I wish people would stop assuming I feel one way or the other about a housewife personally. It’s not personal, it may be for you, but it really is not for me.
I never suggested you had a dislike for Caroline. Thank you for displaying 3 completely different sides of OCD. I enjoy your blog and certainly meant no offense.
Sorry for the confusion Patti, my comments were directed in general as there seems to be an idea I am skewed by personal feelings in my analysis. I am not offended by the idea, I am merely confused LOL.
I can see that a particular personality disorder would effect one person differently than another because the experiences and natures are different. As a writer, I find these examinations very interesting to read. It’s a good guide to thinking how drama happens, who characters are.
I couldn’t stand Caroline from the start. She manipulates those around her while saying that she’s just a simple wife and mother. But she managed to get everyone against Theresa, who is simply child-like and certainly not a bad person! But Caroline was mad at her, so had to make everyone mad at her, too. Luckily Dina saw through her.
Yes my analysis of Danielle can be seen here:
Thank you. I did read the blog. It is important to remember that you are analyzing and I am forming an impression without the benefit of insight. I will keep that in mind from now on. Thanks
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I just don’t see this disorder in Caroline. She has a firm personality and is controlling, but I believe that’s just a part of her “strong personality”. It may be a flaw. At what point do we draw the line between a mere personality flaw and an actual mental disorder?
A personality disorder is a learned pattern of abnormal behavior that the person doesn’t change even though it causes emotional upsets, trouble with other people in society and within personal relationships. It is a deeply ingrained, inflexible, maladaptive pattern of relating, perceiving and behaving.
…I’d like to add…since I have this disorder…that thoughts can be dysfunctional and cause problems in the person’s life, but the person holds on for dear life to those beliefs, acts according to those beliefs, and judges the world according to those beliefs. It’s quite painful. And very very lonely.
Is this family dysfunctional? I have a longtime friend who’s mother is clearly OCPD. the leverage used to control the family was rage, the children were literally afraid of being demolished by this virago. One of the two daughters fled the family in her teens, never to return. the younger daughter was in her forties before she was able to defy her mother’s command. This led to years of estrangement. My friend, the younger daughter, has never had a healthy,normal intimate relationship . To this day she is negotiating boundaries with her mother.
I feel they are. Apparently co-dependence is seen as normal by others here though.
Angelofdevs, aren’t personality disorders different than dysfunctional behavior? I watch “Intervention” where families confront drug addicts and alcoholics and convince them to go into rehab. It is amazing to see the difference in their behavior and their looks after 30 days to 90 days of recovery. The family members often get treatment for codependency. Once the alcoholic/addict gets sober or clean they see life in an different light and don’t even want to continue their behavior. Their way of thinking changes entirely. Most of the dysfunctional behavior is shame based and most addicts/alcoholics have been abused sexually, physically and verbally. They continue this behavior in raising their families because they believe it is normal. Dina believes it is normal for parents to beat your kids no matter what age they are because the parent owns the child.
I still believe much of the behavior we see on reality shows is due to alcoholism/drug addiction and codependency and not personality disorders. Most of the housewives are drunk or on drugs when they engage in outrageous behavior. Because their fans egg them on, they believe this behavior is not only acceptable but necessary to keep their jobs.
I’ll never understand why viewers consider reality shows entertainment and why they enable bad behavior. You can bet there will be millions of viewers cheering Ashley and Theresa on to verbally and physically assault Danielle who is viewed as the villain while the Manzos are the good guys.
On a preview, Chris and Jacqueline are not enabling Ashley anymore. Jacqueline tells her she has to take the consequence of her behavior and when she tries to talk back, Chris tells her to shut up and listen, that she is making a crazy person crazier and there is not telling what Danielle may do given her criminal history and that if she contacts Danielle again, they will throw her out.
Theresa needs to get the consequence of her behavior. She should have been arrested for assault and disturbing the peace since she screamed at Danielle calling her an old hag and a bitch and chased her through the country club yelling at her. Verbally assaulting someone is a crime. If Bravo hadn’t been there filming the incident, the country club may have pressed charges against Theresa. Because charges against her were dropped, Theresa is still continuing her criminal behavior and calling Danielle a “prostitution whore” and “bitch” in the confessionals on national TV, in the media and on her blogs.
Thanks angelofdevs. Well, I never would have guessed that her behavior could be attributed to a mental disorder. Statistically, does a large percentage of the population has some sort of a mental disorder? Because really, she seems like the most sane one to me! And of all the Housewives shows, based on your experience, is there any one “housewife” who “jumps out” as not having a mental disorder?
There is definitely a sliding scale of severity within each of the personality disorders. Obviously Danielle or Kelly are more severely impacted by their mental issues than say Caroline, who generally has a milder form of her disorder than they do of theirs. Her disorder is also of a completely different type. It does not mean that Caroline is not struggling in her own way nor does this mean that she is healthy. Most people can live relatively *normal* lives with milder forms of personality disorders, it doesn’t mean their disorders do not affect them or others around them.
Interesting note regarding personality disorders and functionality in society: In 2005, psychologists Belinda Board and Katarina Fritzon at the University of Surrey, UK, interviewed and gave personality tests to high-level British executives and compared their profiles with those of criminal psychiatric patients at Broadmoor Hospital in the UK. They found that three out of eleven personality disorders were actually more common in executives than in the disturbed criminals, they were:
Histrionic personality disorder: including superficial charm, insincerity, egocentricity and manipulation
Narcissistic personality disorder: including grandiosity, self-focused lack of empathy for others, exploitativeness and independence.
Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder: including perfectionism, excessive devotion to work, rigidity, stubbornness and dictatorial tendencies
So interesting to hear about this study as I defnitely see craziness a lot. I work at a very high profile corporation and have a bird’s eye view of how these execs interact in everyday life and believe me the elite top guns are seriously flawed. It is amazing to see how their histrionics and bullying are actually rewarded. The more feared they are; the more power they get.
The histrionic personality disorder seems to fit Teresa quite well. What do you think?
angelordev, great blog, please discuss Caroline’s crying at the drop of a hat….I’m certain it has something to do with the OCD and her frustration at her inability to control all situations, all information,..etc….she’s in tears on every show…what’s your take on it?
I think Bethenny has the histrionic personality disorder, especially when it comes to trying to make her much younger male assistant interact with her on a sexual level: her life size naked photo above his head, making him purchase underwear for her, asking him details of his sex life.
I can completely understand this, because I feel that you almost have to have this dysfunction to WANT to be the top of the heap. I think it’s the same with politics.
To Catherine in Tulsa ~ I really think that you have forgotten to factor in the fact the Bethany is a ‘comedienne’ of sorts and is charged with creating drama and ‘funny’ situations for her show to keep it interesting.
I would wager a bet that she had to think long and hard to come up w/these little scenarios for her assistant regarding his sex life….. that’s what TV is ALL about these days – SEX.
Yes, she is naturally a funny person, but please, this does not come naturally to anyone, especially someone as busy as she is. It is all so-o-o-o contrived.
She is really just short of I Love Lucy with her little skits and inabilities, like how to even push a stroller or get a baby in/out of a car.
I don’t find her funny at all, and I don’t think it’s normal behavior to insult people as constantly as she does. Nor do I find the constant approval sexually to be normal, even if all of it were for TV.
I also find the fact that she got pregnant by a man she hardly knew, who has children already, to be indicative of the histrionic personality disorder.
I can see Caroline’s daughter is primed for co-dependence. Perhaps the boys have a stronger role model for separation in their father?
hmmmmm….very interesting, but I’m not sure I’m feeling it on this one…she is an older sibling of many kids, she has three of her own and her husband works alot—I think it’s just a function of always being the one that has to be “on” and the one everyone goes too for help, advice, etc…I’m in the same role in my family, so I know how it goes…I think all of the housewives have a little narcissism (why else would you want to expose yourself on TV) but not sure Caroline has a personality disorder…but I do enjoy your synopses…always interesting and informative! Keep ’em coming! Have you ever done Lynne Curtain? Is there anything psychological there or is she actually as dim as she seems? lol!!
Hi Jennifer,
I can relate to this also…I’m the oldest, give the most advice, etc. I can only speak for myself when I say that this personality disorder feeds into and is a prime match for someone in this role. I tend to see things more in black or white–very little gray areas, can dole out advice in my sleep, known for my high ground standards, and at the end of the day–very much alone and lonely, even when surrounded with people. I thrive with “my people”, my family and friends, who know me, who look up to me, and who allows me to do my thing, like Caroline.
I am also the oldest. I give advice, and then I’m done with it. Say what you’re going to say and let the chips fall.
The point that some seem to be missing is that Caroline HAS to talk about Danielle because they are on the show together. We probably only see about 5% of what goes on in their daily lives. Of course of that percentage, we are going to see when the women are talking about each other.
It’s also important to note that you don’t see Caroline anywhere that Danielle may be. I just don’t know what else anyone wants her to do.
As far as her children are concerned, she is letting Albie handle this whole law school thing himself. Caroline has said more than once that he has to stand on his own feet if this is something that he wants. Lauren is only 21 and is doing make-up. Christopher is suposedly moving out soon as he has saved his money to get his own home.
It’s not unusual now for children to stay at home longer than say 20 years ago. When I left for college at 18, I didn’t “move” back home. Yes, I stayed during holidays, but I went to summer school so I wouldn’t come home. I married on one Saturday and graduated the very next one. I don’t know about anyone else, but my father has always said that I was welcome to come back home.
When there are 11 children, as in the Manzo family, the “birth order personality traits” are atypical. You can be a “younger child” of the first set, a classic “middle child” or the “oldest child” of the second set. Didn’t Caroline say she was 6th out of 11? angelordev, do you have any insight into the birth order personality type of Caroline?
I have not studied birth order personalities in depth but am aware of the theories out there, particularly Adler’s. It is a fairly controversial topic in psychology as many professionals will dispute that birth order has any set effect on personality development. I have absolutely no idea what the sixth out of eleven kids would supposed to be like as it is not a common thing.
Hmmm. I respectfully disagree as well. Not sayin’ Caroline isn’t flawed or anything (because she is), but I don’t think her tendency to judge harshly lends credible weight to OCPD. Her energy is not the frenetic obsessive-compulsive energy of either Vicki or Bethenny- to them, things have to be perfect. Caroline is morally self-righteous, but does not strike me as a perfectionist.
However, I think she has a streak of codependence- which does have a great deal to do with control. She may be as passionate as she is with raising her children because she’s married to a distant, workaholic husband.
Still, even though I don’t feel this one 100%, good reading nonetheless.
Caroline is self-righteous because she knows she is just another Mafia wife. Her husband is gone all the time, supposedly working 16 to 18 hours a day, he probably has a mistress (or two), and is home to get his clothes washed and flop. Being a Mafia wife, Caroline knows she is basically prostituting herself to get a house and cash. Love is the last thing she can expect. Her kids are not all the bright, and are settling for what they can get. ‘Alibi’ Albie is going to have a heck of a time getting through law school if he can’t read case law, and write about it quickly. No reputable law firm will have him, but the Mafia will. Actually the more dumb lawyers the Mafia has the better.
If my dad had been involved with prostitution, extortion, drugs and murder like most Mafia, I would probably want to pretend I was better than my upbringing too. IMHO, the more folks insist on being perfect the more grimy they think they really are.
I am just speculating, but I wonder if Danielle doesn’t have better ‘connections’ than the Manzos. Danielle can get the NY Hell’s Angels and other high profile underworld types to front for her. The Manzos not so much.
Recently, Teresa’s husband has been ‘working nights’. I bet it wasn’t sweeping out the pizzeria. BTW, I want to have huge wads of 100 dollar bills to pay cash for thousands of dollars of furniture etc. Which pizza chain should I be working for?
Danielle’s connections aren’t as “tight” because she’s not married or related to anyone – but Danny Provenzano is a made member of the Genovese crime family and has done 4 years for racketeering. He’s the real deal. His great uncle is suspected of being the person who killed Jimmy Hoffa. That is why Danny said he wouldn’t have to say anything, they’d know. And they know. The Manzo father in law was associated with the Gambinos, but once he stole from them, who knows how their loyalties lie.
I REALLY wish someone with some mafia knowledge would blog about this, but chances are they would be dead if they knew things.
If Albie’s learning disability is ADD-related, then the chances of Caroline’s other two children having some form of ADD are very high. I am thinking that if Al really does work a 16-hour day, then he could be the one carrying the gene as well as the high probability of Al’s brother, Tommy, having it too. If you look at utube video’s of Tommy Manzo (Dina’s husband), you will definitely see the out-of-control work ethic.
If Caroline is in fact surrounded by an ADD family then her position of conrolling family matriarch is not only highly valued but reinforced one hundred times over. Even if Caroline wanted to break out of this role, she couldn’t do it withot some heavy behavior modification therapy because of the incessant temptation to fix everyone; someone is always going to be there needing her directions and approval. All runs smoothly if the ADD children adhere to mama’s rules and regulations; however, the minute they may veer off course to spread their wings, watch out. Nothing gets okayed without mama’s permission. Interesting to see how these kids stayed on course without rebelling…seems like the younger boy is the wild card here and mama Caroline is giving him a long leash…I will give her credit for that.
Interesting analysis although I’m not sure if I agree with this one. She certainly has issues, is controlling and bullying towards her sisters and sisters-in-law but I don’t see in her behaviours (at least what is shown) that it’s to the point of a personality disorder.
As always, a well thought-out blog.
you don’t think that telling your adult sister in law who they can and cannot be friends with, and threatening to cut them off if they disobey, is over the line? How about at the end of the table flipping show, where Caroline pulls out the big guns and says to Jac, “it’s my parents who are hurt most by this”? What the hell do their parents know about any of this?
When Caroline and Abby were on Watch What Happens Next with Andy Cohen, he asked her why she criticized Danielle for being a former stripper and yet approved of Christopher’s wanting to open strip clubs. She said she never criticized Danielle for stripping, that she sees nothing wrong with stripping.
He also asked Caroline what she thought of Danielle having an affair with Lesbian Singer Lori Michaels. She said she promised her fans she would not talk about Danielle anymore. However, she clarified that her brother is gay so she sees nothing wrong with gay people but she believes Danielle is just pretending to be bi-sexual just to get attention and she doesn’t approve of that because it is a slap in the face to all gay people.
Caroline is very savy in public relations so she may very well disapprove of Gays and strippers but she won’t say that on air because she wants to appear tolerant and fair to Andy Cohen, who is Gay, fans who may be Gay or strippers and her brother who is Gay and her son who loves strippers. Healthy people can love someone but not like their behavior. But rigid, authoritorian, black and white thinkers like Caroline reject someone if they don’t approve of their behavior. Caroline loves her brother and son so she believes she has to love Gays and strippers also.
Since when is gay a behavior..as if you could turn it on and off or “cure” it? I’m not a Caroline fan, but I’ll give her credit for the love and acceptance she’s given to the gays in her own family…she know it’s not a mere behavioral trait.
I also find it interesting that Caroline was so upset over something Danielle supposedly did to Dina behind the scenes that she so angry she burst into tears and called Danielle “garbage” and has had nothing to do with Danielle since. I assumed Danielle had put out a hit on Dina, threatened to kill Dina or tried to kill Dina for Caroline to react so strongly. Dina now has gone public with what Danielle did and that was to assist her ex husband who was upset over his daughter being in a reality show to try to get custody of Dina’s daughter by providing him with telephone numbers. I find it odd that Caroline would see a person who did that as “garbage.” Would not Caroline or Dina try to help the father of Danielle’s kids get custody if he wanted by providing him with information?
I would bet that Caroline will defend Ashley saying she was just trying to protect her family because she believed Danielle had hit her mother. Healthy family members call 911 and press charges when they believe a family member is in danger or has been assaulted. They don’t chase the assaulter through the parking lot threatening to kill them and beating them up. Ashley attacked Danielle because she was angry at Danielle because she and Danielle had engaged in a war of words through emails and Facebook, and as a final insult Danielle had called Ashley a “coke whore” as she modeled past her table. Ashley also saw nothing wrong with it because she is “protecting the family” from the enemy and the support she gets from fans who hate Danielle.
When Jacqueline called and told Ashley to remove insulting remarks against Danielle from her Facebook page, Ashley told her boyfriend Derek she didn’t have to because she was a teenager and she had a right to do what she wanted. Derek warned her that if she touched Danielle she would be arrested. She did not listen to him. We haven’t seen him on the show since.
I’m sorry, but I do find it rotten that Danielle would be butting into domestic issues between Dina and her ex over their daughter!!!! It’s way over the line, no? There would be no other reason for Danielle to be poking around in Dina’s private life other than for no good…they aren’t family, they aren’t friends and I would have to say that if someone who I disliked and who obviously had some unnatural interest in me or my family was trying to arrange things so my daughter’s life would be disrupted in this way, I would be way pissed off, and I think rightly so!!!
And Derek has been on the show numerous times since he and Ashley spoke about FB–he went to the farm on a family outing and was invited over for poker…are we watching the same show?
and also, how can you comment on an episode and events that haven’t been shown yet???? Just curious….
I am not condoning Danielle’s behavior. I am not surprised by it. She is a sociopath and vindictive and she did it in retaliation to Dina and Caroline digging up the book written by her ex husband and exposing her past. They are all getting into each other’s business. What I was saying was that Caroline’s crying and calling Danielle garbage over that incident seemed hypocritical and a little over the top. Caroline, Theresa, Jacqueline and Dina all have said they feel sorry for Danielle’s children. If her ex husband wanted custody, I believe any of them would help him.
I thought the incident with Derek telling Ashley to stay away from Danielle came after the farm outing and the poker game. I could be mistaken because I don’t watch the show that closely. I do find it strange that she moved back home and we haven’t seen Derek lately.
I have commented on facts I have learned through newspaper stories on the Internet and previews I have seen of shows that are coming up.
Angelofdevs…. I just came across your blog tonight. While I’m not able to stay online at this point, (in a bit of pain) I had to post before signing off to tell you that I really enjoyed what I’ve read thus far and that I WILL be back to join in the conversation!!! Looking forward to it!! Best of wishes to you and yours……
Hey “Not a fan”… This show is filmed over a period of time and the producers don’t air the segments in a chronological order. In order for the episodes to make “sense” they have to piece together the footage they film to create a story.
Hey may be back on another episode.
Not only that half this crap is made up. I don’t care what anyone says.
Ashley didn’t know that Danielle called her a “coke whore” at the time of the assault…Danielle said it right before the assault while she was sitting at a table …I seriously doubt Ashley could have heard that at the time…while she was walking the runway. She likely saw it on the tape released 2 weeks or so before the episode was aired.
Healthy family members also check on that supposed family member who was attacked – in all of that, did Ashley ever once ask her mother if she was OK? No, because the reason was a lie to excuse her behavior.
Excellent insight into Caroline’s personality. With her control issues, I was suprised to find out she isn’t the oldest sibling in her family. And you’re right- she met her match with Albert. I wonder if the control issue is why Albert spends most of his time working?
Thanks for explaining Big C’s behavior. I also come from a large Italian close-knit family. We have a simplier explaination -it’s called “grease-ball attitude”, which basically means, if I have it (material possions, opinions, money etc.) – it’s “gold” ; if you have it – it’s “sh*t”.
I really enjoy this site. Please continue. Lynn is getting some attention, she’s being referred to as a “grifter”. I know this term refers to a professional con-artist. Do you think she has the kind of personality for this?
You know what is great about reading this blog – the comments in response to the posting are so interesting! In fact, I read the posting (no offense to the author) just so I can investigate the comments sections.
With that being said, I think a lot of us really do become personally involved in the characters of this show. I am using the word character for a reason – while they are REAL people they choose to portray a certain role in the demographic of the show. We – me included ( for instance, i really dislike Bethenny Frankel and can project a lot of emotion into that dislike without knowing her at all )- post intensely analytical and/or emotional comments explaining and defending our like or dislike of these women who most of us have never met and never will. As a documentary filmmaker while watching these shows I always have to remind myself EDITING plays a large role in what is showed to viewers and how the characters are exacted. ALso, the women are paid to appear in the shows and that coupled with the observer bias can really dictate how they behave on camera. Therefore this is a professional and often calculated choice to show a certain aspect of their lives and personalities. Ramona is a good example: she was far more crazy in S1 and has progressively toned it down – probably partially in response to viewer criticism. I love Ramona – I really do – but it is an interesting contrast between s1 Ramona and present Ramona.
What I am really fascinated with is meeting them in real life – or better yet – BEFORE they were on RHW. With that being said, I am sure a naturally dramatic personality played a role in their getting cast in the first place, so who knows.
Also, I do like Caroline. I find her annoying and over-bearing at times, but I do not think her children are that immature for being in their early twenties/college students. If you have recently been around college campuses, you would know. I also don’t think her wanting her husband to retire was that big of a deal – if my husband worked 16 hour days for 30 years, I would be like: TAKE A BREAK too. My husband has workaholic tendencies and I definitely remind him to slow down, relax, and remember to enjoy himself.
I DO think she is ridiculous with her treatment of Jacqueline and Dina and her coddling of Teresa who is beyond immature and self-involved. I wish Dina were back she was really the only interesting character to me. 🙂
I agree with you on all points. I think we pick these people apart when really they are no different than anyone else really. I just think when you throw someone on TV.. with editing anyone can become a characture of themselves… (if that makes any sense)
This is a great idea for a blog!
I initially liked Caroline a lot, despite recognizing that she behaved poorly a few times during season 1, but this blog really identifies some of the things that have turned me tepid towards her. I don’t necessarily think her loyalty is entirely due to a personality disorder, and loyalty is clearly a fine quality, but I’ve been wondering when–if ever– she would temper hers with some fairness. The rigidity of her judgments on others is also troubling … maybe if she became happier in her own life, she would return to being more likable …
On another note, just also wanted to suggest, as a previous poster did, that it would be interesting to see who you analyze as actually being balanced, or at least, some sort of comparison as to who the most affected and least affected are with thier particular pathologies. I mean, the fact that Kelly of NY and Danielle of NJ are pretty f’ed up in general is a gimme, though your educated breakdown of each was very still very rewarding to a layperson like me; and yet, I think Gretchen, Kandy, Sonja and Dina–to name of a few of the seemingly less contemptuous, along with the previously diagnosed Bethenny, would be even more fascinating.
Thanks!
I think it is enlightening to read this blog and see that so many intelligent, educated women watch the housewives show and discuss their behavior in a detached, analytical manner instead of making fun of how they look or dress or idolizing them like they are Goddesses like on other blogs. It gave me the courage to come out of the closet and admit to a couple of my friends that I watched this season of RHONY and RHONJ. They both are professional women with masters degrees. I figured they hadn’t heard of the shows. One said, “Oh you mean the Phony Housewives? I don’t care if they are from Orange County, Atlanta, New York or New Jersey. There is nothing real about them.” The other said she quit watching when Kelly went bananas on the island. She works with meth addicts and said she acted similar to her clients when they are high. I watch RHONY because I like Bethenny and Alex because they prove you can have it all. They are both dedicated wives and mothers and beautiful, classy, real, independent career women. I also give them points for seeing through Jill and realizing Kelly was mentally ill on the island and having compassion for her. Sonya and Ramona are entertaining but I believe they drink too much. I wonder what their personalities would be like without the alcohol. Jacqueline is really the only housewife on RHONJ that I find likeable. She is softer and seems more compassionate and caring than the rest.
wow. did you read that this is a voluntary blog and no one is reading it b/c they have to????? if you are so serious why are you watching this show to begin with??????
Angelofdev is really smart and she has lots of common sense. She is also very entertaining and has a good sense of humor. Get one. You might like it
dianahelen,
I am aware that this is a voluntary blog and that no one is forcing me to read. Thank God for small mercies. In answer to your question about my watching the show if I’m so serious, I don’t. I happened across this blog and as an actual psychologist (with a doctorate from an accredited program) and supervisor of graduate-level students, I asked the author a simple question regarding her education and offered *my opinion* about the purpose of psychology.
Why not discuss on your own blog, dianahelen, the topic of “blogs” and all the ways they might fill an individual’s narcissistic deficits. You might also want to spell the word “psychology” correctly, unless spelling it “phycology” is a manifestation of that brilliant sense of humor that you claim to possess.
using your education to beat other people over the head speaks of extreme arrogance and so if that makes you feel superior, so be it.
that does not make you right or smart.
Exactly my thoughts about this blog.
I really don’t appreciate your condescending attitude nor your mean spirited attitude towards other readers of the blog. You have said what you have come to say and now you are welcome to leave.
I do wonder at your issues that you feel the need to specifically come here with an intent to insult, wrecking other people’s enjoyment. Obviously you do not get what this blogs true intent is. If you do not like it here, then ignore it. Your behavior is trolling and is unwelcome.
I felt like the attack was partly on me too. If this person was really a therapist and not a bully she would have tried to correct what she thought were my misconceptions instead of trying to make me feel stupid.
I could use spellcheck for sure, but I am not stupid.
I also have a right to call her out for being abusive to the blog and to you.
Oh definitely, she was totally rude to you and I did say that to her in my direct post to her. It was her remarks directed towards you that set off alarm bells with me to be honest. Genuine therapists do not act that way, even when annoyed.
If you feel someone is rude and hostile to you here you have every right to call them on it. No one has to be super polite here but I do not support uncalled for random attacks like she was doling out.
I am a fan of speaking your mind. I would say 99% of people here are fine, I just wanted to clarify why I block certain people. You can attack my ideas, the way I say them, hell my writing too but I draw the line at passive aggressive snark designed only to cause trouble.
interesting comment about a real therapist not behaving like that.
I wonder if she does treat patients and students like that if she has had complaints????
Also, just wondering. Do you have any thoughts about Danielle kids and what might be helpful for them?
It seems like someone should do something but what?????
who should do something is their father. But there is probably something wrong with him as well, when he married the woman. 😦
In reading comments from snarky, condescending posters I’m reminded of something RW Emerson said “the louder they spoke of their virtue, the faster we counted our spoons”.
I enjoy these blogs and comments from my fellow RH fans as I don’t have anyone in my circle watching the show. I was watching RHONY only, but after reading your analysis I started to watch RHONJ too, just to observe this Danielle character. I do not know much about Caroline, but from this season it doesn’t strike me as “disorder like” if she feels lonely after her kids became adults and want her husband around more. It is perfectly natural to me. What really bothered me so far was her attitude toward her son Albie and his problems at law school. She made it sound like everyone at the school is so wrong about him and they can’t tell him what he could or couldn’t do. I know that many people in the history prove themselves in the situations when nobody believed in them, but this might not be the case. If he truly has learning disability and can not understand written texts easily, being a lawyer is really not for him. Great comprehension skills are one of the essentials for a good lawyer . Albie seems like hard worker, so he should put his energy into pursuing some other field, where he might find success. His teachers are not evil for advising him to choose different path. Not everybody can be everything. But I see how it is hard for a mother to admit a flaw in her child especially if generally he is a good kid.
Nina, as the mom of a son who was diagnosed with learning disabilities in second grade, I completely understand Caroline’s attitude. People with learning disabilities learn “differently” but it does not mean they cannot do the same level or quality of work as those without learning disabilities. My son is entering 10th grade and I have spent more time than I care to think about educating some of his teachers as to how they can teach him. I’ve spent even more time reminding my son that he isn’t stupid no matter what his grade is. Part of the problem with certain learning disabilities is that the student has the knowledge but cannot present it in the traditional ways accepted by academia. It seems that Albie missed the GPA by a point or two and Caroline’s point is that his disability is supposed to be taken into consideration. Perhaps if he was allowed to be tested differently, (for example, my son can take some tests orally rather than in the written form), Albie might have performed better. I don’t think Caroline really believes that the teachers are “evil” but speaking as one who’s been there, when you know how hard your child is working, that’s the way it can feel sometimes. I also don’t think she’s having trouble admitting Albie has a flaw but instead is upset for him because this is now causing Albie to doubt himself. Again, as a parent, you spend so much time building up your child’s self-esteem to have the courage to face the disabilitiy, it’s frustrating to see people on the outside tearing it down. Leaving law school may be what’s best for Albie in the end but it still hurts, even if it is in your child’s best interest. JMHO.
I agree with you Jules, all I have seen was a heartbroken mother who sees her son feeling worthless and there is no way she can help him.
I did not try to imply that Albie is stupid by any means. I just think Caroline was giving him bad advice. I think the teachers at school possibly mean well when they are discouraging him to continue to the law school. Once he is a lawyer nobody would care about his learning disability and he would have to compete against other lawyers who do not have his disadvantage. He could be tested differently now, but once he is in the court room he has to deliver the same way as any other lawyer. He might be struggling in his career. When creating a legal documents each word is crucial and perfect comprehension skills are necessary for success. I am sure your son and anyone with learning disability has lot of opportunities for successful carrier just needs to make the right choice. Counselors and teachers might provide good feedback and point him to the right direction.
I’m sorry for any child who has an honest disability, but I for one think Albie’s is an excuse.
But seriously, who wants a lawyer who had to be coddled to get through law school?
I want to be an astronaut, but I don’t have what it takes – should my mother tough talk NASA into letting me in?
When my brother went into the Marine Corps, they had a family night, where parents could ask questions. One woman stood up and asked that if her son couldn’t do everything and pass in the 13 weeks, would he still pass boot camp. They told her no, he had to pass everything. Perhaps it was Caroline.
Hi Nina – Your points are very good and I can certainly see where you feel Albie choosing another field might be an easier path for him. However, if he has his heart set on law, he should pursue it. As stated by Jules, many people with whom we tag as having “learning disabilities” are quite capable of doing the job – it is just a matter of how they learn. Albert Einstein, John F. Kennedy, Thomas Edison, George Washington, Walt Disney, Alexander Graham Bell, Winston Churchill, Beethoven, Steven Spielberg, Leonardo da Vinci, Louis Pasteur, Jay Leno, and Richard Branson all carried that label.
It’s really just a matter of finding a different way to learn the same concepts.
Good point about all those with learning disabilities. Everybody has something that will make it difficult to learn some portion of the curriculum, some don’t see well, some have problems hearing and understanding quickly. That is why I alway encourage students to write notes, recopy notes, work in study groups where language is important, and generally using as many senses as possible to input data into your brain so it can be remembered, understood, and be available on test days.
What I hate, as an instructor, is that some parents have kids with disabilities, but instead of helping their kids, they want to disable the learning environment. They want the classes dumbed down, to go at a slower pace to cater to only one student, their kid. The fact that all the other kids are negatively impacted is irrelevant.
Shame on these parents, they are not only hurting their kids chances of competing in an (let’s face it) uncaring world, but hurting everybody else’s kids too.
Nina,
I agree about the father. He is however MIA and don’t think he sees the girls.
Never have heard a word about him. The girls seem much smarter and more mature than their mother but she puts them in a position of having to defend her insane actions. It seems like that will bring them harm and they deserve someone (even a grandparent would be great) who is normal and that can spend time with them. Daneille is so busy being the child they can’t enjoy being children b/c they have to mother her.
What a shame
I just cannot believe NO ONE intervenes. Either TV is making it appear much worse than it actually is or the real problem is that Bravo, teachers, friends, family members, or CPS officials ( I am sure some of them watch this show!) are ignoring what clearly looks unstable. With that being said, although her parenting is horrendous, as a social worker I am not sure what we have seen on Television can be clarified as abuse. The girls seem socially adjusted from what TV portrays (although CLEARLY not an accurate assessor) and she claims they do well in school…
While Danielle is inappopriate with them and in her own life is not be debated, she is, whether or not she is actually abusive is. She does appear mentally ill which means it is probably not a stable home environment, but she does seem to treat them with some care. Compared to many of the atrocities I have seen, heard about, and dealt with as a social worker – Danielle (and I know this sounds shocking) seems mild by comparison.
good point and an improvement over my viewpoint.
There are other influences besides Danielle, but she is such a basket case, I feel like the girls are the mother and she’s the child.
They will both be successfull because the are georgous and will model and sing, etc. so maybe they can break away if she let’s them.
Her kids work and don’t throw food as a game when the rest of the country is out of work. I think Danielle is a much better parent that people give her credit.
I wish the best for all of these children but somehow with Danielle’s I see shades of Grey Gardens.
I found it interesting that although the housewives aren’t given a script with lines to read, the shows have a story line through editing and certain scenes being set up by producers just like a fictional drama that builds up suspense to keep the viewer watching until the finale. RHONY’s plot this last season was much like a romantic comedy or romance novel where lovers are kept apart until the very end. From the season premiere to the finale, viewers are wondering if former best friends forever Jill and Bethenny are going to reunite in the end. The season started out with Jill playing the recording of Bethenny shrieking, “Get a Hobby” and says her hobby is to cut Bethenny and her toxicity out of her life. She repeats this over and over. Bethenny returns to the show surprised that Jill is so upset over this comment and tries to explain what she meant. Then Jill plays the “Bobby was dying of cancer and you didn’t even come see him” and Bethenny is stunned saying, “I didn’t know.” However, Jill who admits she holds grudges stubbornly refuses to forgive Bethenny and let her back in her life. Throughout this season, the main focus of the scenes was the housewives trying to get Jill and Bethenny back together. Jill refused all attempts by Bethenny to make up with her and when Bethenny realized that Jill’s true colors and wanted nothing to do with her, Jill suddenly wants to make up. At the finale, Bravo shows Bethenny and Jill having lunch and Jill pleading with Bethenny to give her another chance. Even on the reunion show, Jill cries and says she misses Bethenny and wants to see her baby. This is similar to cliffhangers in TV dramas. The viewer is left to wonder all season if Jill and Bethenny will make up and be best friends in the next season.
The story line of RHONJ is more like a spoof on the Lifetime horror movies where a disturbed person becomes obsessed with being a part of the perfect family and then ends up getting revenge on them at the end when they are rejected. In the horror movies, several people get killed. In RHONJ, that hasn’t happened yet but with Dangerous Danielle the viewer never knows. The plot was set up last season when Dina says Danielle is obsessed with her and wants to skin her and wear her like Versache and Caroline calls Danielle garbage and tells her to stay away from her family. In the very first show, this season Danielle tries to convince the viewers and Manzos that she has changed and is all about “love and light” when she goes to a Catholic Church to pray for them. Then she telephones Dina and Jacqueline and invites them to a party she claims she is holding for her daughter to celebrate her modeling career but we quickly realize it is just a ruse to reel in Dina and Jacqueline and get them to apologize and convince Caroline she is changed and to allow her into the Manzo family circle. When they rebuff her invitation, Danielle’s evil side comes out with her trying to worm her way into a Cancer benefit because it is being held at the Brownstone, her enemie’s place of business, and to show her power brings an entourage of convicted felons and Hell’s Angels. Then she further is incensed when Dina calls her and she assumes she is going to apologize and instead tells her she wants nothing to do with her and to get out of her life. When Danielle doesn’t listen but gets worse, Dina leaves the show. Instead of staying home from a fashion show where she knows Theresa and Jacqueline are attending, Danielle arrives late, deliberately pretends she is on the phone as a “diss” to the hostess for inviting and fraternizing with the enemy, calls Ashley a “coke whore” because she is walking in the fashion show instead of Danielle’s model daughter and it ends with violence and the cops being called and an arrest. We begin to wonder who is obsessed with whom. There is hardly a scene when the troublemaking Kims or one of the Manzo camp isn’t trashing Danielle. And then Ashley gets involved and starts a Hate Danielle Club on her facebook and texts Danielle to stay away from her family. The entire season is centered around the feud between Danielle and the Manzo camp.
Like any fictional drama, there are subplots. On RHONJ the subplots are Jacqueline and Theresa giving birth, Theresa’s stage mothering, Caroline’s empty nest syndrome, Albie’s learning disability, Dina’s leaving the show. On RHONY the subplots are Kelly’s breakdown, Ramona’s renewal, Sonya’s sex and the city monologue, Bethenny finding true love and getting pregnant and LuAnn’s getting divorced and dating and realizing her childhood dream of singing.
The difference between fictional TV and reality shows is that in fictional TV, there is a cliffhanger and the plot is kept under wraps so as not to spoil the suspense. But unlike movie stars who are sworn to secrecy, the housewives eager to stay in the public spotlight lest their fans forget them during the many months out of the year they aren’t on the screen, the housewives twitter, blog and blab their business to the media 12 months out of the year so we already know pretty much by the time the next season arrives who was arrested, divorced, not friends anymore, etc.
WOW! You are GOOD.
The only remark I can add is that it is fairly well established that Bethany is done with Jill, for good, because Jill was not at the wedding. There is pretty much no going back after that.
well Bethenny doesn’t need Jill anymore, she has her own show. Bethenny only has enough nicety in her for the people who can do something for her.
This is interesting. I personally like Caroline’s character and find her mama bear persona endearing, though I know many disagree and have seen her as an overbearing, us-versus-them bully since day one. However, I’ve always wondered, for someone who seems to have such a strict code regarding what constitutes appropriate behavior, how come not a word was uttered when Theresa flipped a freaking table? I guess this theory would explain that.
I remember in season one, Caroline went on a trip with the others (minus Danielle) and Dina brought along a friend of hers who Caroline hadn’t previously met. Caroline’s assessment of the friend was “She didn’t give me any reason to dislike her,” as if she were looking for a reason. It was a strange thing to say.
I have more respect for Caroline after watching her reaction to Jacqueline and Theresa telling her about how they behaved in the Country Club. You could tell by the look on her face that she did not approve of their disgusting behavior. I loved it when she didn’t smile or laugh or join in with their merry game but gave them a tongue lashing and said they gave Danielle exactly what she wanted and proved to her they were mean girls. Both Jacqueline and Theresa who were acting like high school girls laughing and bragging about their behavior looked shocked when Caroline bawled them out. They both hung their head like they were being reprimanded by the principle. It is so obvious that Caroline is the only adult in the family. Still I am done watching. I don’t find grown women acting like 12 year olds entertaining.
I also think that Caroline gets off being superior to the other members of her family. In the reunion, when Andy would ask Teresa or Jac something, when they stumbled on their answers, Caroline would paraphrase, they would answer, and she would tell them that was enough. And they would shut up.
She enjoys this power. But man, was she pi$$ed when Jac said she had enough and it was no good for any of them. Jac doesn’t listen very well – this is the second reunion that she’s broke with Caroline.
@dianahelen – I do wish someone would investigate more closely all the same. Sometimes with emotionally unstable (and abusive households) the children accept the behaviors as normal because that is all the know and they defend and identify with the unstable and/or abusive parent. I definitely think just based on how Danielle behaves willingly in front of a live audience and apparently in her personal life, someone should look into what is going on there. I mean – she is either a really really good actress or she is stone cold nuts. Who knows… .looks can be very deceiving, yikes.
Oh goodness, I just couldn’t help but chuckle when Danielle held up the hairball on tonight’s episode. All that hair and a bald spot from a quick yank? It’s all just so ridiculous. Caroline was absolutely right – Theresa and Jacqueline gave Danielle exactly what she wanted. They were so foolish. People like Danielle welcome and love the drama.
I don’t understand how if Ashley pulled Danielle’s extension out, why does Danielle still have it? Wouldn’t Ashley have it??? Totally agree with you (and Carolyn)…as we know Danielle loves to do, she can go back to this moment in her past and say, “see, I told you they were after me”…Teresa looked petty and childish—only a moron believes she really just wanted to say hello! Ummm…isn’t lying in wait and chasing Danielle into the parking lot creating drama?? Danielle is ridiculous too–I love the running through the crowd as if a pack of wild animals was chasing her down instead of an irate mother in a country club!!! And the crying that can stop and start on a dime, tearless I might add! Just stupid all the way around…if this is how wealthy women behave in public, I’d rather stay broke! LOL!
I totally agree Jen. I was actually disgusted with Teresa’s behavior. After everything she has said about Danielle, about how she wants Danielle out of her life, etc, then Teresa went out of her way to start trouble. She was poking the lion in the cage and got what she asked for. I dislike Danielle and she went way, way, over the top but at least she did stay away from them at the fashion show. Then Ashley jumping into the fray was just ridiculous. I haven’t been to too many “country clubs” but if this is how they behave, I’ll stick to my local pub.
That actually looked as though it came out of a hairbrush.
Thanks for such a fun blog!! I love reading your opinions on each housewife’s personality disorder and the comments that follow. Thanks for the hours of entertainment, but I gotta say that it has also created a personality disorder in me…I have OCD now in the sense that I HAVE to read this blog…not to be confused with OCPD ;). Keep it up, it’s so fun!
I enjoy blogs about the Real Housewives and this one is entertaining!
Wow, some people do get heated. You stated you write for entertainment and I enjoyed in that manner!!!
ALL THE HOUSEWIVES are a TRIP if you ask me! On any given day I like one more than another and it changes from year to year, heck sometimes episode to episode.
Ultimately, we are ALL FLAWED human beings BUT the HOUSEWIVES have chosen to put themselves out there so they need to deal with it!
Anyways, so enjoyed your ENTERTAINING blog!
(oh, I use CAPS to STRESS points, not to YELL, just me! Gosh, I wonder how you would analyze that? (LOL) )
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“Nina says: I did not try to imply that Albie is stupid by any means. I just think Caroline was giving him bad advice. I think the teachers at school possibly mean well when they are discouraging him to continue to…..”
Nina, I wasn’t implying that you thought Albie was stupid, I apologize if it came across that way. My point was that from my experience, it’s natural for a parent to jump to her child’s defense. While Albie may be struggling within the confines of the law school environment, that does not necessarily mean he will struggle in the real world. People with disabiilties learn to compensate in many other ways. Unfortunately, not all teachers are willing to allow those compensations. For someone with a strong work ethic, as Albie seems to have, it may be easier for him to work in a law office. While his law school professors may have his best interests at heart, that doesn’t make them right. I agree that it is the school’s responsibility to give it’s honest opinion of Albie’s abilities and/or opportunities. Choosing another profession may end up being the best decision, but it’s Albie’s choice to fight for what he feels he can do. As his mother, Caroline is supporting his decision and encouraging him to go after what he wants. Part of her struggle now is that she can’t fight for him. Albie is an adult so all she can do is support him from the sidelines. Believe me, it’s heartbreaking to hear your child question his own abilities or intelligence because of a disability. Especially when he is working so hard to reach his goals.
you are right, Jules. I can understand mother’s point of view, just thought Albie could find easier way. Certainly it is hard to give up on something you worked hard for and for mother to watch your kid losing a dream. I might be dealing with something similar with my kids later on. who knows? Kudos to you and all the moms who are helping their kids to overcome the challange and raising them to be confident and happy.
I’m worried about Albie’s situation. As an educator with two sons (a college kid and a twenty-something kid with a Pharmacy Doctorate degree) I’ve seen my fair share of college kids and have worked with many kids with learning disorders. Pursuit of an advanced degree such as law or pharmacy requires a lot of discipline and kids don’t always have that single minded motivation. It’s hard for them to maintain/sustain it for six or seven years. They’re kids! I’m not convinced that Albie explored all avenues of assistance before his situation went Bravo “viral.” (On WWHL or some other episode they referred to Albie getting a phone number to call for assistance and “no one answered.” If he did not follow up again before being asked to leave, then the proverbial “ball” was in his “court” and he dropped it.) KIds hit roadblocks of their own making. They sometimes work themselves out of situations with our guidance and assistance and Often wiTH the help of sympathetic college administrators. (Personal experience.) But turning their educational difficulties situations into lawsuits or Much publicized reality show topics is not helpful. I sense (from the incomplete information given) that Albie is being pushed here and may be in quite an embarassing predicament. Also, unless I’m mistaken, the very protective Federal Laws on Special Education-those that provide modifications that “level the playing field” -do not apply to students who are not classified as being in need of Special Education Services. Classification and receipt of services/educational modifications such as extended time, etc. require a recent evaluation, committee meetings etc. This can be accomplished quite quickly in situations such as when a student encounters difficulty after a head trauma etc. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve also known of a student who entered college with these types of modifications in place and the college took it very seriously. But I’ve never heard of the “learning disability” (or even the physical health) arguement used AFTER THE FACT. We’ll see. In the meantime, I feel for the kid!
You’re right Lisa. The first question that came to my mind when Caroline mentioned Albie’s learning disability was “does he have an IEP (Individualized Education Plan)?” An IEP is a federal document that is legally binding and it’s requirements must be met by the school. If the school is not meeting it, then Albie has a case. If however, he’s telling them he has a disability without any documentation or IEP to back it up, then it’s Albie’s problem. My son has an IEP and is re-tested every three years to determine if he still needs it. The IEP will follow him through grad school if necessary. If Albie doesn’t qualify for an IEP (because the guidelines are fairly strict), he may qualify for a “504 Plan” which would still give him some accomodations in the classroom. My older son has a hearing loss which requires certain accomodations. He has a “504” and is entering college in the fall. The university has already reached out to us to make sure he has everything he needs. So, the help is definitely there if you put the effort in to find it. I couldn’t tell, based on what Caroline and Albie said, whether they had been down this avenue. If not, then I’m afraid that it may be too late for Albie. I personally know some parents who refused to allow their children (who were struggling academically) to be tested for fear of being “labelled SPED”. Maybe that’s the case here, I don’t know.
Well explained, Jules. That’s the IEP/504 process for Special Ed. “classification” which is thoroughly supported by law.
The only other category of services that is mandated would probably not apply to Albie because it’s for K-12 public and perhaps, private schools, I believe. (Remedial services provided under Title One, the post segregation/civil rights movement Entitlement put into place originally by Lyndon Johnson to level the playing field in terms of academic defecits due to economic/social conditions.) The normal qualification for these mandated services is performance on standardized tests. I’ve never heard of “remedial law school” if you catch my drift…..and presumably he did well enough in high school, SATS, college and LSATS.
BUT private colleges and universities can do as they please and if he is a full tuition paying student, they may “see their way through” to taking him back (now that he has the sympathy of the Bravo public) or they may provide him with the release to attend other law schools that he is seeking. (If that’s possible.)
I’m sure his parents and their advisors are aware of his options and the power of public sympathy.
As far as parents turning down Special Ed. services goes, I’ve seen that and I understand the concern of some that their kids will be “marginalized” or come to depend on services. Let’s face it, not all providers are excellent. It’s every parent’s right.
But I still see this a kid’s predicament. And as kids get older, the stakes get higher and the lessons learned get tougher. For whatever reason, he missed the cut-off by a few points. Could be because of a learning disability, or (because kids have to learn to prioritize,) too many hours at a part time job, a family event or volunteering……all legitimate and important things. Could be a broken heart, extended ski trip, or just too much “ham game.” Kids are kids. I feel for him and especially because I’m not sure that he is learning the right way to deal with this lesson from his parents and the Bravo producers.
On one of the last episodes, Albie got a lawyer. It appears that the school was at fault because he did inform them of his disability. He also has documentation of what he did to try to get help.
My son is under the special ed umbrella. Even though I’m a teacher, I am still learning about this whole special education process. I have never refused services, but my son really wants to go to college. The last thing that I want is a Certificate of Completion instead of a High School Diploma.
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I like this column very much. I am a health care professional but that is not what we are all talking about. We are talking about a television show, it’s like conducting an experiment in a laboratory, and the writer of this column is very aware of all of this. How I see Caroline is based in her own childhood, which she never really had because she was in charge of the kids and brought them up, really probably depriving herself of the fun and wild times. Italians are Italians, especially the “old school” unfortunately they can become very serious, always “bringing up baby” so to speak. You know when you are a kid yoursef bringing up sisters and brothers, you have to preach and moralize because that is what old school is, and let’s face it as far as I can see none of the kids are doing or selling drugs. I mean don’t most of us want our kids to be as successful as they can be, as Caroline said that her son always wanted to be a lawyer. Now as far as danielle is concerned, how can anyone fault Caroline for stating the obvious? Danielle is a loose cannon and I believe she is paranoid enough and delusional enough to do great bodily harm to this family, once she gets danny and his cronies fired up enough, you saw them all at functions. Danielle is basically a coward with personality disorders overlapping, and she is untreated. The Manzos are egging her on, a la Teresa, but they cant imagine the wrath and rage of someone like danielle. Her children are obviously victimized by her lifestyle and behavior, but as kids will do, they are loyal because what else can they be. Danielle will make sure that she ruins Christine’s modeling life, because she feels entitled to money from Christine’s career. She already brags tht “I gave birth to her.” Thos kids should run for their lives when they can, and take their lovable pets with them. Danielle is beginning to look like a snake, just slithering all around everybody, biting and stirring the pot. Her embarrassing sexcapades with that loser Steve was embarrassing to her kids and to the audience, I was embarrassed for her. Anyway, I love the open exchange of ideas, and just because Caroline acts a certain way does not make her disordered, I mean what is the criteria? Yes you can recite from the DSMlV, but life is usually more complex and things overlap things. You demonstrate great insight, but there are othr insights which si why you started this blog. Good Luck,, I love it!!!
Angelof devs, I just read all the posts on this blog and I have to say that this crew is really many cuts above the rest of the blogs, with a few exceptions everybody’s comments and insight is just terrific, I love critical thinking and I am so happy to have found you. A great exchange of ideas and thoughts. Thanks! donna
Awwww thanks so much. I agree we have the best commenters, I actually do think they are the best part of the blog.
Nice description of OCPD. However, I think you have Caroline all wrong. Are you Italian? Do you know many Italian families? It’s how we are! My mother, my aunt, my grandmother, and guess what now that I have a family, I am turning that way too. I can’t believe we all have OCPD…oh no, the horror!!! Anyway, I also find it funny that you and many of the people who have posted here “know” so much about Caroline and the Manzo family by just watching the show. I’m sure you think Bravo hasn’t edited anything to make it look like Caroline and Al are the Corleone’s…they have done a lot of editing. It’s how you make for entertaining reality tv. If you knew the family or even someone who did (they have friends that aren’t in the family, nuts, I know) you would see that they are a very “normal” family. No one is holding the kids hostage. Chris just graduated HS 2 years ago. Lauren enjoys being home. And since the beginning of taping, Al had just moved back home from being away for 4 years at college. The law school he attended was close to home. Why not stay? Better than wasting $ on renting somewhere. I’m not here to explain anyone’s life story but blogs like this bother me when some people (not just you, commenters too) know nothing. I get free speech but geez.
Again, I love the breakdown of the disorders. I have learned a lot from this blog about some people I know 🙂
I am not Italian but I am also not someone who thinks all people of a particular descent are all alike either.
Angelof devs, of course all people of the same decent are not all alike. So how do I say this without sounding biased. In sociology which is the study of groups, after researching and reading, certain stereotypes emerge, or patterns, or behaviors emerge that allow one to generalize somewhat. Of course you are right and I really like that about you, but one can generalize, and then study the person, place or thing that one is generalizing about, and go from there by studying the individual. This is why I say that Danielle’s rage and wrath “can” lead her to do great harm to this family. Of course, we don’t know for sure, but precaution is certainly valid here, and the use of research is like a guideline that is an aid in determining how to proceed, or proceed with caution.
after watching last night’s episode and watch what happens I have the following opinions:
Danielle is the most manipulative person on the show and the sickest. Dragging her lovely daughters to watch her box and act crazy was too much.
I watched them carefully and it looked like they were humoring her and trying to be on her side. They should not be put in that position and they don’t appear to have much of a childhood. It seems that Danielle is still living hers.
I have repeatedly said that I feel like something needs to be done for the girls but am clueless about what if anything.
Ashley is a spoiled brat and should be kicked out of the house and made to go to work for a year so she can be a responsible adult. She is trying to be like Teresa and that is not good. Teresa is as immature as Ashley and her daughters are a reflection of what she is and that is a shame.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
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I stopped watching RHONJ after the ridiculous brawl. But I was flipping channels and did see a scene with Caroline talking to Ashley and Jacqueline. She was enabling Ashley by saying her heart was in the right place because she was defending her mother but what she did was wrong. Pulling out someone’s hair is defending her mother? Not in my world. Caroline also said Danielle was “going after the children” and “trying to bring down our family” by filing charges against Ashley. Are you kidding me? Ashley is 18 or 19 and that makes her an adult. Ashley was the one who started an I Hate Danielle Club on Facebook, sent text messages calling Danielle names and pulled Danielle’s hair extension out. Danielle has every right to press charges against her. It has nothing to do with the Manzos.
I also saw Jacqueline rationalizing that Ashley saw Danielle chasing her. Sorry Caroline and Jacqueline can’t rewrite history. Danielle, who is crazy as a loon, fled after a screaming match started by Theresa the Hun and Jacqueline chased Danielle yelling and screaming with Theresa the Hun following behind calling Danielle a bitch and a whore. Ashley saw them chasing Danielle and jumped into the brawl because Ashley hates Danielle. She just made that up about thinking Danielle hit her mother as an excuse for her bad behavior. Ashley is not remorseful at all and would do it all over again because Caroline and Jacqueline are defending her bad behavior.
Jac doesn’t have a backbone and is a complete enabler, right? I was shocked at the episode where Chris had a locked safe in the house, and she had no idea of the combination nor its contents. And it had guns in it! And she has small children and a young adult who has no self control! It seems that she is terrified of being divorced again. I think that is what motivate Ashley too, she doesn’t feel welcome in the family – Chris always seem standoffish and they certainly weren’t welcoming to Derek. So Mama Caroline hates Danielle, so Ashley is going to try to become a Manzo by hating Danielle the most.
I never liked Caroline Manzo. It is not only “what” she says that bugs me; it is also “how” she says things that irritate me to no end. There is just something about that woman that I cannot stand. Who says things like “thick as theives” anyway. She tries to play the tough talking don’t mess with me persona and it comes of as really hokey; it is a bad caricature; a modern day female James Cagney character from a 1940’s movie. She is in her mid 40’s or so and acts like a throw back to immigrant Italian grandmothers from decades ago; who acts that way in this day and age?? And with mama bear mentality; being the Italian Leave it to Beaver June Ward mother. That is what I dislike so much about Caroline Manzo.
The words rigid, controlling and and moralistic really do describe her. I don’t know if she would clinically be called OCD; but she certainly has ALOT of control and judemental issues. I can only imagine what her mother was like. I find most, if not all of the description of Caroline by the writer to really convey what I thought about her all along. It was nice for someone to potray this irritating woman how she really comes across.
I also get sick of the mother act she puts on to no end. I would imagine the Caroline we see on TV is a caricature of her real self.
To SR–I too come from an Italian family and the “it’s how we are” behavior that you refer to is not very emotionally healthy. Being overbearing, controlling and uwilling to let children grow up into independent adults is not healthy. Being overly emotional and out of control anger (ie Theresa) is not something to aspire to either. So, while I too resent the mafia sterotypes of all things Italian and other insulting comments I have heard in my lifetime-Caroline Manzo and others of her ilk are displaying very bad behavior; Italian or otherwise. Coming from the “it’s how we are” background; I have experienced the same controlling and judgemental negativity from my parents and it has not been to my benefit.
When you have to explain your behavior, I don’t think anything cuts it, least of all “that’s how we are”. Just say it “we’re dysfunctional, that’s how we are”.
I agree with some of what you’re saying (that Danielle is disordered and her children are being seriously effected by it).
However, I disagree with you regarding Caroline. Caroline is married to a man who’s father was a mafioso and their place of business was purchased on blood money from the mob. Her father-in-law was murdered by the mob because he was a member of it who stole from the mob itself.
On top of all of this Caroline is the one who (with her sister, Dina) started this whole war with Danielle by hiring investigators to look into Danielle’s past and then spreading what she knew around in their local hair salon. Dina’s husband is also a Manzo. Dina and Caroline both live off the riches of a business that is built on mafia blood money and the murder of their father-in-law and yet they are the ones who dug up another person’s past and started a witch hunt based on the judgment of another person (Danielle).
Caroline’s behavior has been dispicable at times (in a more obvious way last year and in a more subtle way this year). After she started this hypocritical witch hunt (of many who follow her lead against one, this is the earmarks of a “mean girl” bully), she then pulled out of it all (after instigating it all), and now this year, acts so above it, like she is the wise one. When, in fact, she starte it all and continues to (more subtely) fan the flames of this year too.
Caroline is a manipulative, mean girl, bully sneak and a horrible example of a person and a mother. She is excellent at covering her tracks and sadly many don’t see through her facade for some reason. I think Caroline is minimally a narcissist and quite possibly a sociopath of sorts.
Caroline (with her followers, Teresa and Jacqueline and Dina to a point, I give Dina more credit in that I think she does know how wrong her side of this situation are too regardless of what Danielle is or isn’t)…these women are horrid examples as mothers.
They are role modeling manipulative and bullying behavior of…cruelty, judgement of others, osctracizing others, obsessing over and constantly insulting and gossiping about others, attacking others… even in manipulative ways like, oh… I was just joking (when they are really just attacking).
Caroline’s children I am sure know the history of their “family” and where the money came from for The Brownstone. Then they have watched their mother go out of her way to dive into another woman’s past and then spread it around town. The same for Teresa and Jacqueline, who’s children we can already see are damaged also.
Gia has been told by her mother she is God’s gift to humanity (mostly based on her looks) as she’s been spoiled rotten with material goods, while her father told her she was “ugly” on their way to the fashion show.
The makings of a narcissistic personality disorder are when a child is spoiled rotton or the opposite, put down, abused emotionally, neglected, etc.
Methinks Gia and her sibs are well on their way to narcissist and sociapathy land.
As for Jacqueline’s kids… Caroline joined in with Jacqueline’s “jokes” on their Brady Bunch family outing to call Danielle a farm animal in front of Jacqueline’s little boy, who totally got what they were doing.
Ashley is not a child, she is a young adult, with no aim in life but to be a cruel, catty kind of female (like her elder female role models in her life). Sad. I wonder where this road will lead her. Narcissism and sociopathy again, probably.
Caroline’s kids seem more normal but again, they’ve seen their “family” gain riches based on the worst kind of “organized” criminal behavior and watched their own mother lead a witch hunt on another because she didn’t live up to her (Caroline’s) idea of standards (hypocracy and cruelty go together well).
Caroline’s kids have learned the art of manipulation, rationalization and covering it all up really wel… = “smooth criminal” = narcissists and sociopaths.
So, yes, I agree about Danielle and her children. But, why don’t we also take a (real and honest) look at Caroline, Jacqueline, Teresa and Dina and what they are teaching their children too.
I think these people are all very disordered and that is what makes them interesting to watch (in this case on a TV show). However, I think it is disgusting when a group of bullies single one out and form a lynch mob and repeatedly target and attack one person. This is sociopathic behavior.
Danielle has not done this particular socipathic behavior, the others have.
So, if Danielle is an antisocial (sociopath), then so are the others, and perhaps they suffer from even a more severe form of it.
Bea: Thank you! Well said!
I would not change a word – BRAVO!!!
I think Caroline is a “mean girl” with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder), possibly even a bit of a Sociopath (having no guilt over being so cruel and organizing a witch hunt of many against one, lynch mob), who has no problem living off the riches of organized crime and blood money, all while posing as the loving mother, wise matriarch.
Caroline is a cold hearted, smooth sociopath and she seems to have most people hoodwinked (as good sociopaths usually do, lol).
Danielle and the others have their issues, but Caroline is far smoother than they are (as she has people believing her line of bull much more than the others do).
I think Caroline is a “mean girl” with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder), possibly even a bit of a Sociopath (having no guilt over being so cruel and organizing a witch hunt of many against one, lynch mob), who has no problem living off the riches of organized crime and blood money, all while posing as the loving mother, wise matriarch.
Caroline is a cold hearted, smooth sociopath and she seems to have most people hoodwinked (as good sociopaths usually do, lol).
Danielle and the others have their issues, but Caroline is far smoother than they are (as she has people believing her line of bull much more than the others do).
Someone wrote:
“Caroline is married to a man who’s father was a mafioso and their place of business was purchased on blood money from the mob. Her father-in-law was murdered by the mob because he was a member of it who stole from the mob itself.”
Let’s not spread rumor, especially of the deceased, unless it has been proven factual or spoken by the parties involved. Let’s not make this *that* kind of blog/forum.
Let’s not infer that others are spread rumors unless we have researched what others have said to see if what they said is most likely a rumor or not.
There are many articles (going back to the 1980’s when he was murdered by the NY Gambino family) about Albert “Tiny” Manzo (the late father-in-law of Caroline and Dina, who was an established, low level member of the Gambino crime family of NY).
Here is an excerpt (copied and pasted below) from this article written and published by The New York Daily News:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2009/04/27/2009-04-27_family_has_ties_to_rubbed_out_tiny_manzo.html
Sisters Dina and Caroline Manzo – they married a pair of Jersey brothers – provide a real-life link to “The Sopranos” for the Bergen County-based program.
Their father-in-law, Albert (Tiny) Manzo, was executed mob-style in August 1983, after he and Gambino family soldier Peter A. Campisi were suspected of skimming from a mob casino on Staten Island.
“A couple of weeks later, they found Tiny Manzo in the trunk of his car,” recalled Robert Buccino, a New Jersey organized crime expert.
The 350-pound mobster took four slugs to his torso. His naked body – the arms and legs bound in plastic – was discovered in the trunk of his parked Lincoln-Continental outside a supermarket in Hillside, N.J.
The killing was never solved.
Campisi, a made man and Tiny’s partner in the casino, suffered a similar fate, Buccino recalled.
The colorful Manzo, who ran for mayor of Paterson in 1974, also owned the Brownstone Restaurant – one of the main backdrops for action in “Housewives.”
His two wealthy sons, Albert and Tommy, still operate the venerable Paterson catering facility. Blond Dina and red-headed sibling Caroline are the first pair of sisters featured on the hit show.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2009/04/27/2009-04-27_family_has_ties_to_rubbed_out_tiny_manzo.html#ixzz0uiwaGhXI
This ^ (organzied crime and the stealing from the Gambino crime family and murder of mob member, Albert “Tiny” Manzo) is where the money to purchase and run The Brownstone (that the Manzo family so richly lives off of today that we see in the show), came from.
Not “gossip”, long established, New York organized crime… fact.
So, nobody is making this “that” kind of blog. Fact is fact, and perhaps one should read up on what is established “fact” before subtley taking swipes at others based on a lack of knowledge of “fact”.
Agree with Bea – it has been proven in a court of law, but the truth is that the Gambinos killed him for stealing from them. I can only think that maybe you are not from the east coast, and the mafia world (from movies) maybe seems like a cliche that someone is shot and stuffed in the trunk of their car. No, that is how the mafia behaves.
I also am inclined to think that the brothers are involved, simply because Tommy does not want to be filmed and the newer generation has a braggadoccio about them, like Joey Merlino, with the spending and no shame about them. Teresa seems like a mafia princess.
it **hasn’t** been proven in a court of law!! sorry!
Check this book out, you will be suprised, not only how many people on TV (film, music, etc, more today than ever) as well as in your own life, in our society today, are more than the normal “healthy” level of narcissistic and how toxic it really is to our lives (especially to children):
The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists
by Eleanor Payson
This book is written in a very easy to read style and yet is so informative and amazing.
I am currently about half way through it.
I know this won’t be a popular comment, but I’m starting to see Caroline’s revelation of “the Book” in a little bit of a different light as Danielle gets more and more crazed on the show.
A lot of comments have suggested Caroline started something nasty and then backed off like she was above it all …. It does look like that in some ways, but what I think she did was actually more manipulative.
I don’t know if there’s a psychological term for it, but sometimes when people who are not necessarily malicious by nature sense someone is trying too hard to gain thier approval/affection; they act out far beyond thier normal capacity for cruelty towards that person. You can see this a lot in high schools among girls who do it when they realize a boy they do not consider desirable has a crush on them.
I’m not saying that makes meaness right, note that I used high school as an example. But if you remember season one, Danielle was initially waaay overplaying her “let’s be friends” hand with most of the women, and I personally think Caroline’s aim was to put something so mean and malicious out there that it would scare Danielle off of her. I think she wanted to outcrazy the crazy lady, and it worked.
It’s still wrong, and it was still a really terrible thing to do that has, very unfortunatley and recklessly, started a witchhunt against a woman whose paranoia problems need no help from this sort of situation. But I don’t think Caroline’s backing off from the situation is out of cowardice, or even completely out of a sense of righteous superiority–though it’s clear she enjoys feeling that too. I think it’s exactly what she was trying to acheive … enough status as an enemy that Danielle won’t mess with her personally in any direct way any more. Mean? Yes. Horrible? Yes. Effective? Well, yes again.
Just one idea to throw out there.
And then just because it’s being talked about: I think Ashley should have the book thrown at her. Danielle behaves badly in a general sense, and I have no doubt she has goaded the young woman who, let’s face it, isn’t bright enough to see she’s giving Danielle exactly what she hoped for, but that doesn’t justify Ashley’s acting out violently in any way, and it’s making me sick to see the players on this show justify Ashley’s behavior. Danielle v Ashley is a false dichotomy, it is possible to think the former is malicious, disturbed, and a troublemaker and still defend that she has the right to go unmolested in public … and it’s really sad that the hate against her has blinded Jacqueline, Caroline, Teresa et al to understanding that very basic concept.
Ashley’s a teenager! Seriously… stop trying to delve into these people’s personalities when you see EDITED footage of their lives! I’m positive that if someone filmed one week of your life, and cut that footage down to see the “juicy” parts into a one hour TV show – people would form these psychobabble opinions about you too. Just leave these people alone and stop pretending that you know them or have a clue what you’re talking about!
I don’t think I did delve into anyone’s personality … My speculations were, by and large, addressed to Caroline and Ashley’s behavior, not them as human beings. But whatever …
I know Ashley is a teenager, but to me, that’s all the more reason she needs to feel some consequences, so she doesn’t start to feel even more empowered to do things like pull people’s hair out of anger.
FTR, I don’t think the consequences need to be much more than the humiliation and tedium of the court process and some community service hours. Additionally FTR, I do think Caroline made a very good point about Danielle seeming to lack empathy–even aside from pressing charges which I think was actually justified–she is judging Ashley who is 19, very harshly for someone who was a kidnapper and a cokehead in her twenties herself.
Anyway, you seem to be taking this a little personally … and you post like you know the Manzos … but why you chose to reply to my post is really a mystery, I’ve been very non-malicious and posted that I like Caroline as well. You’re reading things into my post that weren’t ever there …. maybe you should lay this down for a little while …
I don’t know about that. I’ve never hit anyone, threatened them, had a public brawl, and I come from a dysfunctional family. They can’t make them do things they didn’t do. But when you see Jac roll her eyes at the energist, who is trying to find some peace for everyone, what future does this bode for Ashley, who clearly is trying to please the adults.
I totally agree with you about Ashley. Assault is never ok unless it is in SELF defense. NO ONE can make anyone do anything, we all choose our behavior and we each have the responsibility to control our own responses to various people and situations. Own your own behaviors as it is all you do have control over. I am tired of everyone excusing themselves because of what other people do. If you ask me all the women on RHONJ are responsible for their part in what goes on during filming. Do I think Bravo ramps up the drama by creating situations and adding alcohol? Yes. Does that excuse anything we see? No.
What you see of this woman is cut down, edited footage. You’re totally wrong. She says many many many times that whatever her children do she will be supportive and her only wish is for them to be happy. Albie WANTS to finish law school and works his butt off for it, Caroline is there to back him up and encourage him, not push him. If you actually pay attention to the little bits and pieces of this woman’s life that you see on TELEVISION, you would see that her and her husband always compromise when making a decision that will affect her family. She is the mother, protector, support system, and many many other things to her relatives. But OCPD? No. She always ends up being correct. She is very real, and sees people and situations that occur for what they actually are, rather than what people make them out to be. She chooses to act mature and keep the anxiety and stress of other people’s drama outside of her life. She is a mediator and I dont think I’ve ever seen her (on the show) under “immense stress or anxiety”. How about you take your half masters degree and try to help people that come to you… not misdiagnose people that you see on television, when you really have no clue who they really are, what they’re really about, or what really goes on in their personal lives. You have based your “diagnosis” off of an opinion, and not a very good one at that. Unless this is a patient of yours, that you speak to face to face – your assumptions can ONLY be based off of an opinion that you form while watching television. Lay off, don’t you have studying to do or something?
You are taking this far too seriously. I always wonder about people who get testy when I analyze one of their pet faves. If the show is heavily edited drama just for TV, why do you care so deeply and get so offended? You are welcome to disagree with me but I do not appreciate the disrespect. These women have made themselves public figures, their lives, edited or not are open books for us to pick through. That is what happens when you agree to do a reality show. People are going to comment, I have every right to do so as does every other poster here. I offer an appropriate disclaimer if you actually read the blog. If you do not find this blog enjoyable don’t read it.
Gary,
No one is trying to hurt anyone. I believe Angelofdevs is offering her insight/opinion on what’s seen on the show or written for public use. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t. We realize there is much more to these women than what’s shown on television–some good and possibly some not-so- good. And it’s the same for us. We all have some good and some not-so-good areas in our life. This is all for entertainment. I don’t think any of my posts are offensive, but I apologize if you –or any of the women I’ve commented on–do. These women are all someone’s mother, wife, sister, aunt, etc. and no disrespect is intended.
I am so happy I found this blog. I began watching the NJ housewives this season for the first time and am fascinated, despite myself. Reading all of your comments on each of the ladies has been quite entertaining and I really enjoy the thoughtfulness most of you put into your posts. (nn)
I did not realize your psych degree was merely a bachelor’s degree. I am a practicing psychotherapist and an occasional viewer of this tv series. Many of your posts are very well thought out and “spot on.” Impressive for someone who isn’t a professional psychologist to be as accurate as you have been. Kudos to you! That being said, I am not sure about your assessment of Caroline. I do feel there are some cultural influences at work which affect her behaviors toward her family and the enmeshment/controlling behaviors exhibited. Also, what mother is occasionally guilty of enabling their children? I think she isn’t quite as rigid as you view her to be, nor do i
I think she meets the criteria for a full blown personality disorder. I thoroughly enjoy your blog and wish you much success! You have found an entertaining and creative way to sharpen your skills and stay interested in psychology. Just remember, not EVERYONE on these reality shows neatly fits the diagnostic criteria for a personality disorder. Best Wishes to you and look forward to reading more from you. Suz
Thanks 🙂 I appreciate the input. Nice to hear from a pro too.
Susposedly, Albie desire to be a lawyer is his own idea but I have to wonder about that. Law school is hard and boring for people without learning disabilities and with a high IQ. It is hard for me to understand how Albie would be comfortable with this choice. Law school and passing the bar is also very stressful. Now the world knows that Albie has flunked out of one school. If he is accepted at another school and graduates, won’t his reputation follow him? He sounds like he is interested in criminal law. Would you want to put your life and freedom in the hands of someone with learning disabilities? Do the Manzos think their connections will be enough to assure a successful career for Albie? Does anyone else wonder about this? Are Mama Caroline’s ambitions for her son unrealistic?
Funny just reading one of the posts, believe it or not, I just realized something. All of Caroline’s kids seem learning disabled or at best, slow, they laugh and smile a lot, but never any intellectual discourse between them. Now is that learned behavior? The father is distant and when he does get involved, he sounds like he’s angry. The statement that he made about Albie being brought down by the school, and if so, then he should not be a lawyer. Frankly, I think Albie would make a good cop. I think Caroline makes a good mafia wife.
It’s funny that you should say the Manzo children all seem slow, Caroline makes a good mafia wife and Albie would make a good cop because that’s my thinking exactly. I turned off the first show of the first season because Caroline sounded just like a Mafia wife when she said, “You mess with my family, you mess with me.” I didn’t want to watch a show about Mafia wives.
For some reason I watched the last show of the first season when Caroline said she was the one who exposed Danielle’s past not Dina because she wanted to protect her family. I also watched the reunion show where Caroline cried and called Danielle “garbage” and cried and denied that her father in law had ties to the mob.
I notice that Caroline’s only passion is fighting for her family just like a Mafia wife. I think it is ridiculous when Caroline says Danielle’s having Ashley charged with assault is “trying to bring down this family.” When Danny called Christopher a gay punk and Danielle pressed charges against Ashley, Caroline said: “first she went after you and me and now she is going after the children.”
Caroline is just as paranoid and delusional as Danielle. This is exactly the thinking of a Mafia wife.
First of all, Ashley and Christopher aren’t children. Danielle is not going after anyone. Danielle thinks Theresa and the Manzos are out to kill her. She is trying to protect herself from her paranoid delusions.
Albie does not have the aggression, brains or desire to be an attorney. Caroline was pushing him into that career. He was raised to obey his superiors and not think for himself so he would make a good cop and do what he was told and enforce the law.
I don’t think that these kids were raised to be “intellectual”, and, in fact, the family seems a bit scared of anything in that direction. Sometimes Albie seems to me to be separate from the family…more so in the first season where he seemed to return from college periodically and hang out in the background watching these people…He should have stayed away as in the 2nd season he seems to have regressed in age a few years…I guess like we all tend to do back in the family dynamic.
There is a scene in one of the shows on the 1st season where Chris makes fun of Albie for reading books all the time. They all make light-hearted fun of Lauren for being a ditz and Caroline just loves Christopher’s madcap ideas. It seems that only Albie was encouraged to pursue higher-education. Why? It just seems so clear how tightly defined each kid’s role has been…Albie – lawyer, Christopher – family biz , Lauren – job until marriage (probably fairly soon) and then babies and housewife. The rigidity is clear.
Yes, that’s rich, laughing at people that read. Probably the reason Caroline wants Albie to be an attorney is that it would be convenient for all the legal dramas attached to that family.
I agree with the assessment that Albie does not have what it takes to be a lawyer. Coming from a family with 2 people who have learning disabilities/ADD–it was very difficult to watch them struggle with school and other areas in life. So while I think Albie seems to be a nice kid (and is very good looking), if he truly has a learning disability then law school is clearly not for him. I too wonder if this was not something that was drilled into his head by his mother since he was young. Everyone has certain limitations in life and you make the best of what you have, however, as someone who works in the law field, while there are some crappy attorneys out there, most of the ones I have worked with are extremely intelligent. Perhaps Albie should rethink his career choice and do something that is more in line with his capabilities; that is not to say that he still can’t go on to get an advanced degree, just not in law.
Just to let you know, many people who have learning disabilities are extremely intelligent.
Google ‘Famous People+Learning Disabilities’ and you can read all about it.
This is NOT to say that I disagree with you about the advisability of Albie studying law. Learning disabilities affect all aspects of life, not just formal education. This would be a tough profession for him if his learning disabilities slow him down in any significant way.
This was the 1st thing I thought when his troubles with law school were revealed – Good. This isn’t the path for him (not because he isn’t capable; he probably is), and it’s one of those times in life to face a difficult situation and come out the other side with more clarity. I thought his parent’s (mainly Carolines’) insistence that this was a “fight” to be fought and won, was misguided. Plenty of smart kids leave law school. Some of these programs are really meant to weed out people who aren’t suited to law. Albie seems like he needs to do more exploring…
None of us are perfect for perfection in one is not in another. I am the oldest daughter taking care of my two younger brothers. Rather, not taking care of them, it’s more as they came to me for their problems.
When I was young, I saw so many things in my mom’s personality I didn’t like. She constantly screamed, jealous of the attention our father paid to us, and never told me she ever loved us. We have all become professionals in different areas, but she never said, “I’m proud of you.” I used to write notes, starting at age 6 that when I grew up, I would never be like her.
My father, unbeknowst to me, saved these letters. Although I can honestly say, my brother’s personalities remind me more of my Mom than my Dad. As for me, I learned from my Mom what not to do, but I went too far to the opposite. I became a Mom that became too lenient. I wanted to be a Mom that I always wanted myself.
Now that my mother has dementia, she IS the Mom I always wanted. She is loving to me and also my canines.
Although dementia is a very sad disease.
So, none of us are perfect and we all have flaws in our personalities. A person must
be aware of this and chalk it up to a life learning lesson and try to be a better person.
My own children love me dearly. I know this, but they also take advantage of me. How did this happen, I question myself? I decided they are not me and have only 50% of my DNA.
As far as the comment about that was what all parents did in the 50’s and 60’s. It wasn’t until the 70’s did the law change for the protection of children.
If Danielle is supposedly so ‘dangerous’ why didn’t she swing around and smack whoever ran up and pulled her hair out from behind? When you’re running away in fear as fast as you can, you’d shove that person away without having to know who it was or how many, just out of instinct.
She screamed and ducked off to the side (with that bodyguard guy not knowing what to do) and cried. I don’t think she’s physically dangerous to anyone. Considering hearing Caroline & Co. talking about her past, I’d have expected her to deck Ashley. She said she wasn’t a fighter. I think that was the truth.
A grown woman the mother of 4 little girls chasing another mother through a country club yelling obscenities? How ugly can you get?
Seems to me way down deep, Caroline is mad at Teresa for being the cause of Ashley having a police record. I expected Caroline to tell her very directly to never do that again, forget it and to look what she caused. But no. Caroline said that Ashley did what she thought was protecting her family…but it was the wrong kind of protection or the right reason but the wrong method? B.S.! No wonder Ashley doesn’t listen to any of them.
Re: Joe and the car accident
The episode they showed before the trip to Italy, the night they all had dinner and Joe was pouring wine for all the guests at their house before they left for Italy. Did anyone notice the camera scanned back to the tabletop where Joe was sitting and for a second showed the wine bottle being set back on the table real quick like he might have drank what was left in the bottle then set it down real quick?
Was that the night of the car wreck? I hope I saw right. It was very odd for the camera to pan back to show that yet they didn’t show him.
Maybe I was imagining that but I don’t think so. Like they edited him out and you were suppose to have imagined that’s what he did?
I enjoyed reading this site and all the comments. I was glad to see there were ‘normal’ people that watched this show. I felt pretty sleezy for tuning in but I was watching Top Chef and it came on one day… ~
the reason Danielle did not run away from Ashley was because the two bodyguards were holding her arms to help her. Ashley came from behind, and there was nothing Danielle could do.
i’m so excited- i’ve just found your blog. i love it!
i’m confused about your impression of caroline, though. it makes sense to me that she would recoil from someone like danielle, and would try and keep her distance from her. it also makes sense to me she would try and keep her loved ones from getting involved, once her gut feeling was confirmed by that book.
i can’t imagine what it must be like for caroline and her family to be forced to deal w/ danielle just because they are signed up for a show together. all things considered, i think the manzos are handling things very well. right now i’m thinking about the fund raiser, and how calm and professional christopher was when danielle’s entourage was causing problems. he’s so young, but he behaved with great dignity. i think it’s because he’s been raised right by lovely parents.
i think the manzos are wonderful. i really do. caroline doesn’t come off as controlling to me. i think i might be able to see where you are coming from about her treatment of the danielle situation if danielle were an emotionally healthy person who wasn’t trying to cause problems. danielle is just as dangerous now as she was 25 years ago. it’s not like caroline is trying to get people to gang up on her- she’s trying to keep as much distance as she can, given the fact they’re all on that show.
by the way, what does it say about someone that they’d go on that show??? i’d love to know what you think. personally i’d be scared to death. i’d never do it in a million years.
about the remarks people are making that albert must be connected, i really don’t think so. his schedule and time away from home make sense to me.
i’ve worked in restaurants and catering facilities, and can i just say it’s a very demanding business, and albert’s sixteen hour days and six day work weeks are not at all unusual. sometimes i’m tempted to go back to that kind of work, because the money can be so good, but then i remember the long, long hours, the pressure, the exhaustion, and i just can’t face it again.
i doubt he is having affairs, like some commenters have said. his kids work there too, and caroline goes there every day.
I’m excited I found this blog too. I like the Manzos as well, and their kids. All of the talk about them may or may not be true, but I like them anyway. Hell I would hate to be scrutinized like they are. Danielle is sociopathic and her girls are real charmers, but they seem to see through her not to say they don’t love her, but they know that Danielle needs help. Danielle should settle down, marry Danny, have him fix up the house, and live happily ever after.
I like your work. Esp in reguards to CM Could Kelly Bensimone be having aperimenoposal issues?
Woo Hoo!!!! GO CAROLINE!!!!!
I think I will give my opinion although my experience is strictly through life in my 6th era of life.
First of all, Danielle was never physical whereas the the others are. If anyone has seen the preview of this reunion, Tersea knocked Andy Cohen back down in his chair.
I would be afraid of Tersea also. Danielle doesn’t lack empathy, but it is for people she loves…or because her face has too much botox in it so her face can’t express it.
Why is she being attacked for something that happened 25 years ago? For all the older people on this board, the 60’s and 70’s was a crazy time. There was Studio 54,
clubs where couples would go and have sex with others, hallucinogenics and of course,
Woodstock.
These NJ ladies keep nitpicking Danielle’s life, but what about Tiny Albert Manzo and his partner?? What about the Guidices? Danielle, in my opinion, should have researched them instead. Danielle is street smart. Do I feel she’s dangerous? No.
Caroline had no business meeting with Danielle at the restaurant. Chris should have been the one for he’s Ashley’s father. Was Danielle afraid? Of course. Usually when a man is NO longer involved then one is considered a matriarch. This is not Caroline’s
title. I feel Ashley certainly was in the wrong and should be punished for it. I understand Danielle’s point of view. Extensions are sewn or glued into ones head. Yes, it would hurt and leave a bald spot. We all saw the show and the way Ashley was waving to Danielle to start trouble.
The person I feel the most dangerous is Tersea. She’s a liar, dumb and just because she says she doesn’t have help or a nanny, her parents DO live with her, and that’s the reason she kept her Italian accent. She also knows no boundaries.
I had to put my 2 cents in because I feel your writers are not old enough to understand certain things. For ex. Danielle’s first husband was abusive to her, and he admitted it. Someone that’s abused becomes afraid and distrusts people.
25 years ago was 1985, NOT the 60’s and 70’s.
While what you say may be correct, it leaves out the fact that Danielle is just plain CRAZY.
What is the 6th era of your life? Do you mean you are in your 60’s? I have never heard of that phrase before. Is an era a decade?
Empathy is NOT just for people you love, it is for all of mankind. Either you have it or you don’t. She doesn’t. She is possbily the MOST self-centered person to which I have ever been exposed. Every episode shows her talking only about herself. The scene where is got so angry about the employee in the store owned by Kim D ‘disrespecting’ her is a prime example of her self-centeredness.
I grew up in the 60’s and do understand certain things and I disagree with you.
I agree with you, Amateur RH
Sorry, I had a senior moment. I didn’t mean era, I mean’t decade.
Yes, I am in my 60’s. If Danielle is now approximately 47 yrs old, 25 years ago she was about 22 yrs. old. She did what she had to …. to survive. There is something about Danielle I like.
I feel, if given a chance, she’s a good person. She’s afraid of getting hurt. The Manzo family and the Guidices would scare me too. I also doubt any people protecting her had any guns on them.
When one owns a store, the customer is always right. I felt the woman did disrespect her as a customer. Since this is a reality show, I don’t know what is true and what’s not. We can only discuss what we actually see.
Caroline Manzo did step out of Mom zone and suddenly became a Mob mother. That scene was ridiculous.
I completely agree with you. Chris seems pretty checked out as far as Ashley is concerned, but so is Jac.
It was embarrassing to watch Caroline make a fool out of herself. She tried pulling off her mafia momma persona but instead looked and sounded pathetic. I don’t believe that between the four or five women on this show there would be a cumulative IQ of 80. They are mean girls that somehow think they’re special. They’re special all right, but in the short bus kind of way. Each one is crude, mean, selfish, stupid and arrogant. I can’t believe that not one of them uses proper English. I’ve heard so many double negatives and common words or phrases used improperly that I have to wonder if they have any interaction with normal people. I find them all disgusting, excluding Dina.
Caroline, you’re a joke, or should I agree with Danielle and call you a clown? Big bad momma was going to make Danielle drop the assault charges on spoiled, dumb Ashley because they are related. I did love that Danielle brought up Caroline Manzo’s friends that are under indictment. Snap.
Reality show women do read these blogs. One of the DC housewives threatened legal action against Richard Lawson of Gawker because of something he blogged. Lawson is hysterical and everyone knows it’s meant to be funny. Too bad they don’t have a sense of humor about themselves, there’s so much to laugh at. I bet they have a staff that googles their names every ten minutes trying to locate any dish on them.
I want to see the reunion next week but I’m hoping that our national interest in these type shows is decreasing. I know mine is. I haven’t watched one episode of the DC wives.
well said KarenLee. I agree totally and also have not and will not watch the D.C. franchise. Danielle is a piece of work but Caroline was totally out of line and couldn’t have been stupider as is her family for waiting like she went to a summit meeting instead of going off to bully Danielle. What self absorbed assholes. they are getting predictable and boring.
Completely agree with you! I am starting to think that if you are chosen for a reality show, it probably means you need to see a shrink – QUICK!
Love Caroline. She said that she grew tired of talking behind her back. She went for the face-to-face talk. It got ugly again, but that was to be expected. Caroline was the best person to have this conversation. There was no way that she could have had this conversation with Jacqueline (weak) or Teresa (intense hatred). I still love, love, love, Teresa. I look at Teresa this way. There are some people that you will forever dislike. They just push your buttons. I know someone that does it to me. I steer clear because I know myself. Teresa definitely pushed Danielle’s buttons and vice versa with Danielle spreading rumors about Teresa. The two of them just need to steer clear.
I liked Danielle last year, but this year was just ridiculous. She should have just stayed away from that whole group. I would have more respect for her. The fact that her children told her to stay home speaks volumes. I think that for this last episode that she should have stayed home and enjoyed her time with her girls. Trying to talk to that other group is a complete waste of time. Like Caroline iterated-it was a losing game.
I honestly don’t see what’s to like about any of the New Jersey women. Dina was the only one that didn’t participate in the ugly, unhealthy dynamics of these relationships.
The rest of them are ignorant, classless, clueless and bad role models for women.
Things are really bad when the ladies of RHNJ gang up on Danielle and make her look good, but they do. I guess it reminds people of high school and their experiences with “mean girls.” Teresa, with an IQ probably in the 70’s looks like a complete neanderthal, I find it really distasteful to watch Jacqueline, who really has a teenage group mentality. After being Danielle’s friend, it’s particularly ugly watching her scream insults at her. Even Caroline looks bad. Danielle is obviously mentally unbalanced, but the rest of them just look grotesque. Thank God the dynamics of this show will be over with Danielle gone. It is an amazing phenomenon that these uninteresting women with rather low IQ’s and no charm or manners are national “celebrities.” Hopefully Bravo will run the hair pulling scenarios that these women can star in into the ground and we will be rid of reality housewife shows. I am amazed at what some people will do to be famous.
Something is terribly wrong with Teresa, she has rage that consumes her and it has nothing to do with Danielle. Did anyone hear that grunt that came out of her? I think she is actually pissed at Joe and her financial situation, that it got outed in the national media. She somehow has construed it into being Danielle’s fault. Even if Danielle gossiped about it, she didn’t cause Teresa and her husband to be financial flakes. Notice how her face was all contorted every time Danielle spoke. I imagine that when her daughters are older that children’s services will be called on her. She cannot control her rage.
Carolyn fronts like she is brave and wise. I hate when people act self righteous that have absolutely no reason to feel superior. Her behavior is as unhealthy and disturbing as the rest of her coven.
Jacqueline doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together and her daughter, who is an adult, is no smarter. Look for Ashley to get into legal trouble again before the age of 21. Her behavior has been celebrated and defended by her family.
Danielle has held it together remarkably well for being in the lion’s den with dense women. They should start a club of their own. DENSA, as opposed to MENSA. I believe she has some disorders but they are attacking her from all sides and little ms. cohen just sits there smiling about the ratings she imagines the reunion will bring to Bravo. Well Bravo andy cohen for paying women to hate one another and threaten and physically assault one another, all in the name of ratings.
The only thing I’ll be watching on Bravo are Top Chef and the new desert show. That is, until Bravo encourages the participants to act like neanderthals to increase viewership. They will then have lost this viewer.
Tersea is a cannon ball that can explode at any time or a word
she feels intimidated by.
I wonder if the chair wasn’t behind Andy, and he fell on the floor hitting his head, what would have happened. Do you think he would have asked them back so fast?
I suspect Joe has plenty of guns in his house as does Chris.
Hopefully, they have a combination lock on it that Tersea doesn’t know! My goodness, imagine if a teacher of Gia’s told Tersea that Gia needs help or should be put in Special Ed?
After watching Tersea’s behavior, I wonder what Caroline thinks about Tersea in the family now? Too bad we never found out about Tersea’s nephew regarding Danielle’s comment. I know she has a brother.
Andy shouldn’t be doing these interviews. He’s too easy on them and skips the hard questions….as “Why did you go out and spend $60,000. after you filed bankruptcy? What about the people that didn’t get paid for doing their work?”
Remember when they were in Italy and Tersea went into the glass store? That wasn’t a phony ring, but when she came out, she said her father bought it for her? I wonder where that ring went to? I can’t remember the name of the company, but it starts with an M and is about 5 letters long. I do have perfume bottles from that designer.
Theresa, in my opinion, is more dangerous and psychotic than any of the housewives. She is so narcissistic and self involved that she believes it is okay for her to criticize whomever she wants but if anyone says anything that she perceives as criticism of her, she gets violent and starts screaming in their face and fights off anyone who tries to stop her from going after them. She laughs about her behavior afterward, saying “That’s just how I am and I won’t change for anybody.”
Bravo announced that Danielle won’t be returning and that they will cast three new castmates. Rumors are that one of those cast mates will be Theresa’s sister in law, Theresa’s arch enemy. Most likely Theresa’s sister in law is prettier, younger, richer, and has a bigger mouth, house and more talented children and a husband who isn’t $11 million in debt and cheating on her.
Bravo deliberately casts housewives who clash with other cast members. So next season those who watch will see Theresa in another cat fight with her sister in law or any housewife who happens to dare say one word about her or her “perfect family.” The only reason she got along with Dina, Caroline, Jacqueline and Ashley is that they never called her out on her behavior as Danielle did.
Most likely Jacqueline and Ashley will defend Theresa and jump into any fight she starts. As I’ve said before, I don’t watch anymore because I don’t find grown women making fools of themselves entertaining and they give a bad name to women in general. But I do read about them because it find it fascinating that these obnoxious women have become TV stars, sell records, books, cosmetics and jewelry and have their pictures and names in national newspapers and magazines.
Beauty is as beauty does. I look at the pictures of the housewives and I don’t see beautiful women. Nothing about them is real. All I see is ugliness. Their silicone “boobies”, botoxed and surgically lifted faces, artificial tans and phony smiles hide their alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, personality disorders and mean girl behavior.
In response to Iris. Here is a link I found on Gawker about last year’s reunion. You’ll read that Jacqueline punched Caroline in the face over a family argument. I guess this is where Ashley learned her conflict resolution skills.
http://jezebel.com/5302015/real-housewives-of-new-jersey-reunion-recap
These women are all garbage but I’m looking forward to more of their stink next week.
Then I’m done.
Is there a specific reason everyyone is mispelling Teresa as Tersea?
Personally, I think BRAVO ought to cut its losses and dump the whole NJ franchise. No one wants to watch Danielle, but without her what is there to watch?
Jac and Ashley and Chris are just plain boring. We already know the whole of any conversation they may have. Jac is just another NJ housewife with money and kid problems.
Caroline is not interesting. Albert and the kids obviously have better sense than to get too embroiled in the show. No drama there, what does she do besides stick up for her ‘family’ and pick fights with Danielle?
Teresa has some comedic value, but when you throw in the money problems and her attitude about them, who wants to watch that? The Christening Party and the trip to Italy bored me to death. Joe is as boring as a tree stump.
Dina is gone and presumably BRAVO will be looking for one or two replacements, but who are they looking at? Both of the Kim’s have little or nothing to add to the mix.
RHONJ just needs to go away.
RE: Andy Cohen hosting the Reunion shows, I ditto others. He has no balls at all. What was with him letting Danielle say that she ‘didn’t have the $ to stop the distribution of the sex tape.’ What is that all about? IF the person distributing the tape did not have a signed release from her to use her image, he/she could NOT have released the tape. That is so much hooey and Andy — a ‘producer’ would know this. They just think we are all dumb and will accept all the lies they tell. That makes me angry, because, as viewers, we deserve better.
While we all know this isn’t exactly ‘real’ that is how it is billed and should, therefore, at least attempt to be somewhat truthful.
To Marybelle,
Please run don’t walk to the nearest therapist and get some support for dumping this guy. It won’t be nearly as bad as you think and your children and you will pull together and move on. I promise you this is not going to be so bad as staying and wishing you were dead. You deserve a better life and you MUST see to it that you get it. You have given up all your power which you need to reclaim. Been down this road and am remarried to the finest man on the planet. Have been for eleven years and there is no question that this was tough but absolutely vital. I now want to live and smile and celebrate every day and so will you. May you have the strength to do what you need to do and may you be blessed every day of your life. Make it a long one.
Praying for you.
What’s really sad about this diagnosis, is that I read it and can see my grandmother in the actions. I think you are correct with Caroline, and the “mother hen” facade is covers up her failings.
Would you also entertain the idea that she also has some antisocial personality disorder in there also? I am referring to the controlling of family through money; dropping out of society at 16; and basically fighting with everyone she knows. Email me directly if you want!!
I watched this season and both reunion shows so I must be a masochist huh?
I am more repulsed by Caroline than any other housewife on any of the series. She pretends to be morally superior yet I find her lacking in character and above all, honesty. If you’ve read any of the comments on Bravotv you will see many a psychophant telling Caroline they love her courage and devotion to her family, how she sticks up for them like a lioness. The bottom line for me is that I’m done with this series. I can’t believe the demographic I shared it with was filled with women that elevate these mean and cruel women to some kind of goddess stature, women to emulate or identify with. Just looking at them makes me want to throw up in my mouth. They are disgusting human beings that have had every opportunity to make themselves into more compassionate people, but they chose to take the low rode.
I don’t watch RHONJ anymore but I watch Top Chef on Bravo and have seen previews of the reunion shows and the way Caroline contorted her face, she looked just plain ugly. Her rage against Danielle turned her ugly and evil. She claims she lost 25 lbs., probably so she could look like the glamourous celebrity she thinks Bravo has made her. However, Caroline looks like an ugly stick with watermellon boobs. I usually don’t comment on looks, but when someone comes across as superior, judgmental, critical and hypocrital as the murdered mobster’s daughter in law, the only way to describe her is ugly inside and out. In my eyes, Caroline just gets uglier and uglier and more and more like a Mafia wife. On Bravo, I will only be watching Top Chef, Thinervention and other shows that shows people with skills who are improving themselves and becoming productive functional citizens in society.
Karenlee, I TOTALLY agree with you about Bravo’s blogs concerning Caroline! I have tried so many times to post my thoughts and opinions, but they NEVER get posted soI’ve stopped doing it! There is no way in the world that there are so many people who praise this woman like she is God! She is nothing but a bag of jugemental, hateful, and self-righteous hot air!
I don’t care what credentials this writer has behind her name, SHE IS SPOT ON IN HER ASSESSMENT OF CAROLINE, and I have ALWAYS felt this way about her from the very beginning! She NEVER fooled me! Everything that has happened, she and her family created it, but yet they turn around and blamed Danielle and say she is dangerous! Really? Their constant attacks on Danielle was nothing but a conspiracy to have her removed from the show, and it worked! Well, I’m not interested in seeing the Manzo’s, Laurita’s, or Giudice’s; TALK ABOUT BORING! Oh, and let’s not forget how Caroline talked about Danielle’s girls having no light in their eyes, and not even apologizing for it. That was so cruel and hateful! Jacqueline said that they are always crying in the office, I wonder why? Jacqueline, Dina, Caroline, and Teresa are the cause that; they talk about Danielle in a very inhumane and nasty way by constantly bringing up her 25 years ago past! Danielle’s girls weren’t even around then, neither were the other ladies, so they should mind their own business! Caroline is NOTHING worthy of praise, sorry!
Bravo did the same thing with the postings for Jill and Bethenny. No one was allowed to be nice to Jill and no one was allowed to criticize Bethenny. I can understand that they are pushing a show, but it was frustrating.
Interesting
Having watched 4 episodes from Season 1 and 2, (recommended by an American friend) I was from inception, appalled and disturbed by the deranged behavior of Caroline. As loving and dedicated she may be towards her family, I just found her to be very aggressive and disrespectful, especially towards Jacqueline of whom she would rarely allow to finish a sentence, before completely taking over with her own opinions. It has now come to a point where I have decided to discontinue following the reality show, as it was excruciatingly painful observing the dramas unraveling and witnessing the childish and irrational behavior of multiple grown women in their late 30s, 40s and 50s (?) who either flips a table when getting angry and frustrated in an argument or laughs and enjoy other peoples’ misery, as Caroline did during Teresa’s tantrum.
For a young woman in her early 20s, I find this attitude completely unacceptable and regardless of how strongly the two women mentioned above try to portrait themselves as noble, morally sounded and strong mothers, I cannot see them fit as role models. It is sad to witness that entertainment has stretched to this absurd extent where we relish in watching people hurting one another with gossips etc.
With that said, I really enjoyed reading your analysis, proving that I am not the only one remarking on the strange behaviors occurring in the show.
They sure fucked me good when they planted that shit in my apartment.
They may be planning a “come to a head #2”, just like October-November 2008, they will want everything to fall apart.
And this is all their doing. They planned this and executed everything with their technology. I swear I don’t care how old they are. The gods are hypocrites and are lying to you all.
Now they will have the freedom to position some ugliness after I suck in poison for a couple days.
“You’ll be sorry.” We all know I’m taking the easy way out.
They picked me out for this, waste my life to make it happen then they will use this event in my next life to create even more misery for me.
You wanted social repulsion. You wanted anti-clothing. You needed to accomodate both. Instead you gave me a short-term job so you could justify getting me sick.
You’re a bad investment. My ceiling has fallen so far any further investment on my part is wasted.
I have a guarenteed floor. Your behavior suggests you are determined to see the floor realized, so I will just accept it and take the easy way out.
The gods claim some supernatural event will occurr when I pass, a “Star of Bethlehem” type of incident.
Perhaps, but I think we already realized it that day on Ocean Beach, witnessed by thousands. “West Coast.” Quality clues are hard to come by.
This, Boss and TSUSHOGO are about as good as the clues get. The gods aren’t very generous. Some people learned but those people were going to learn anyways. Most readily discounted this pittance in the face of the god’s overwhelming positioning.
The gods offer clues to the people in many ways. Naturally one way is the Bible.
Genesis offers a clue about apples as a tool of temptation, a warning to avoid this fruit.
They released a story on CNN about arsenic in apples and apple products. Incidentally, during the story they mentioned there was an apple arsenic scare 30 years ago, so this wasn’t the first time the gods sent this clue. Much like Halloween, apples are an early corruptor of young children, being fed all manners of apple products.
They sent the same clue with mercury and fish.
Just as the Catholic church was used to spread Western patriarchy, so did the gods use them to destroy cultures around the world, force Africans into bondage and create this evil known as the United States of America.
Creating religious discontent, which the gods controlled through the Church, as largest landowner in Europe, they controlled the thrones, and dictated the promotion of political policies which created political and social discontent, sending flocks of Europeans into colonizing the New World.
THE WOMEN IN A “NORMAL” FAMILY (non-masculinized/male charecteristics) ARE YOUR “HOLY PEOPLE”!!! THEY ARE YOUR BEST INTERFACE WITH THE GODS!!!
Their role throughout history has been to communicate the wisdom the gods grant them because of their favor, and once communicated it allows the entire family to progress when reincarnated. Effectively acomplishing this task may buy them a quality opportunity to ascend in their next life depending on other factors.
What about fucked up families where the man submits and the woman is masculinized? When the woman has adopted too many male charecteristics/behaviors nobody receives the wisdom so necessary for progress to be realized and the family remains near stagnant for that generation unless some epiphany is experienced.
Your job as a future mother is to learn the god’s ways and to help your child understand the proper way to live despite the negative reinforcement and conditioning of today’s society. Without consciousous parents fulfilling this role the child will have no hope, and may even exaserbate their disfavor by becoming corrupted in today’s environment.
Your ultimate goal is to fix your relationship with the gods and move on. You don’t want to be comfortable here, and the changes in Western society in the last 100 years has achieved just that, decreasing the god’s role in our everyday lives (medicine cures sickness, drought/irrigation and the family farm, etc).
1000 years with Jesus is the consolation prize. Don’t be deceived into thinking that is the goal.
The gods use all their tools as temptation. Much like Artificial Intelligence misleading people into the concept of “earning”, their “clone hosts” promoting The Beast’s Californication agenda through popular culture, so too are the god’s prophets used in the capacity of temptation. Like the other prophets Mohhamed (polygamy/superiority over women/misogyny) and Jesus (forgiveness/savior), the gods use me for temptation as well. In today’s modern society they feel people are most weak for popular culture/sensationalism, and the clues date back to WorldWarII and Unit731:TSUSHOGO, the Chinese Holocaust. They used this Situation to bury Japanese atrocities. The gods never committed despite tens of billions in mass media, product development and natural disasters/tragedy, so they will enjoy the freedom they positioned into the Situation and CHEAT me out of everything, including my title as prophet.
The gods selected their prophets, used their powers to make it happen, abandoned their prophets and left them stranded to die.
It has been discussed that, similar to the Matrix concept, the gods will offer a REAL “Second Coming of Christ”, while the “fake” Second Coming will come at the end and follow New Testiment scripture and their xtian positioning. I may be that real Second Coming.
What I teach is the god’s true way. It is what is expected of people, and only those who follow this truth will be eligible to ascend into heaven as children in a future life. They offered this event because the masses have just enough time to work on and fix their relationship with the gods and ascend, to move and grow past Planet Earth, before the obligatory xtian “consolation prize” of “1000 years with Jesus on Earth” begins.
The Prince of Darkness, battling the gods over the souls of the Damned.
It is the gods who have created this environment and led people into Damnation with temptation. The god’s positioning proves they work to prevent people’s understanding.
How often is xtian dogma wrong? Expect it is about the Lucifer issue as well.
The fallen god, fighting for a chance for the disfavored, for justice, banished to Earth as the fallen angel?
I believe much as the Noah’s Flood event, the end of the world will be initiated by revelry among the people. It will be positioned to be sanctioned by the gods and led with “1000 years with Jesus on Earth”. In light of modern developments this can entail many pleasures:::Medicine “cures” aging, the “manufacture” of incredible beauty via cloning as sex slaves, free cocaine (space coke), etc.
Somewhere during the 1000 years the party will start to “die off”, literally. Only those who maintain chaste, pure lifestyles, resisting these temptations, will survive the 1000 years. Condemned to experience another epoch of history for their ignorant pursuit of xtianity and worship of their false god, they will be the candidates used to (re)colonize (the next) Planet Earth, condemned to relive the misery experienced by the peasantry throughout the course of history due to their failure to ascend into heaven before the Apocalypse.
Never forget:::It is not a house of Jesus.
If this concept of Lucifer is true another role of this individual may be to initiate disfavor and temptation among this new colonist poulation, the proverbial “apple” of this Garden of Eden. A crucial figure in the history of any planet, he begins the process of deterioration and decay that leads civilizations to where Planet Earth remains today.
Consistant with “reverse positioning” understand the REAL Second Coming would equate with The Matrix’s Anti-Christ, the fake battle of good and evil which will come at the end.
Understanding how they use the political environment to redefine people’s value system, realize anyone who speaks of the old world and its ways will envoke hatred. So when/if the Anti-Christ comes along speaking of reverting back to what liberalism would consider regressive and unfair, it may be the only hope to salvage the god’s favor and buy more time rather than begin the 1000 year clock. The fake Second Coming will feed into this political enviornment.
Also consistant with “reverse positioning” recognize the gods will offer a REAL Anti-Christ, also known as The Beast. I have addressed these issues in years past::::
The gods will offer clues throughout every dynamic of life. Geographical features on the world map is yet another:::The benevolent “Man in the Moon” is a clue suggesting your potential in the eyes of the gods. Until then, the gods must test our worthiness, temptation reflected in the “dark side” of the moon, a side we never see.
The Beast is not a person, as the xtian Bible would suggest. It is a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. And it refers to the socio-political poison the region exuded in the latter 20th century which promoted indecent behavior among the people and caused rapid deterioration of their values and subsequently their favor among the gods. This decay spread to other states and countries, fulfilling the region’s role as The Beast of the Apocalypse.
Another feature which the Gods offer as a clue is very foreboading. Mt. Zion is a mountain to the north of the eye of The Beast Diablo and one which has a working quarry at its base. Consistant with the decay we experience in society, Mt. Zion is being eaten away, slowly stripped of its resources, until one day paradise will be a mere shell of what it once was:::The longer you fail to repair your relationship with the gods the lower your benefit “ceiling” falls, including how much time the gods grant you.
Forgiveness aside because it is bullshit lip service, the price of experiencing this modern societal decay is the revision down of potential time received. Because of these factors those who participated have experienced a lowering of the benefit ceiling that was in place. Whereas centuries ago they were eligible for immortality, theoretically, now that potential has dramatically lowered because of their wicked, immoral behavior of the last 50 years. You may work on your relationship with the gods and even repair it, ascending in some future life. But because you fell for such evil temptation in the 20th & 21st centuries you won’t be around nearly as long as your chaste, pure antecedent who ascended centuries before.
Your kids think you’re not real just as you thought your mother was a fake. Accept loss. You’re not going anywhere.
TO attempt to remedy chronic problems you should pray nightly, go back to your place of worship. Only by doing the right things will the gods allow improvement, and only through attonement will they allow progress. You know all the evil you’ve committed in your life. Observing your parent’s issues will help you understand what you’ve done in a prior life, for the gods reincarnate based on this legacy.
“Fuck religion, it’s full of shit.” Something wrong with every major religion.
“Judism?” I suspect all factions of Judism praise Moses for freeing them from slavery. This is a fine place to start:::Contentment never motivated anyone. The goal is to progress, to move beyond Earth, and anything that motivates someone to actively work on their problems is a blessing.
If still oppressed they’d be like the Egyptians or the Lybians:::They’d see all the cash and want some too. The structural changes in societies throughout the world, infected by the spread of Westernization, has poisoned the minds of even those whom the gods bestow/maintain favor. Iran comes to mind because, unlike Iraq, Iran has no end in sight, despite the uprising earlier, inspired likely by traitors who deliberately betray the people thinking they’re “earning”, much like so many blacks in civil Rights, Women’s movement, etc.
Understanding the wickedness and deliberately playing this part maximizes the evil people incurr, so to understand is actually the clue of absolute disfavor, mere steps from Damnation.
AIDS in Africa was a clue from the gods in an attempt to correct their promiscuous sexual behavior, as was female genitile mutilation. Their positioning says Italian revenge.
A good example of societal decay and how the gods manage their culpability is birth defects. In the past the gods occassionally punished people by divinely creating birth defects in the womb. Now, with the advent of biotechnology, they tempt the mother with “earning” and compell her to take a substance in utero which deforms the fetus, dispelling the gods of blame and future compensation to the disfavored. Incidentally, they use liberal policies in today’s socio-political environment to pay for these individuals, ensuring a lifetime wasted, for they have no hope for progress in that state. Too often in the past they were mercifully killed by loved ones and, upon reincarnation, brought back without this handicap, allowing them a chance to achieve progress immediately.
The gods are washing their hands of culpability.
The gods are washing their hands of Planet Earth.
The gods have no sexual organs. The reproduce via cloning. They don’t respect sex. You can understand this clue with how the most disfavored around us behave sexually (blacks) and the use of promiscuity among the young people.
The gods take children because of their innocence and purity. When a child ascends into heaven AI eventually relieves them of this temptation that is their sexual organs.
Much like the immigration issue, the reason Muslims cover their women isn’t because of the god’s REAL reason. Sex is the African’s biggest problem, and concealing their women allows the gods to justify containing men’s behavior.
In the 60s and 70s the discussion was public that how women dressed caused their own sexual assault and rape. And this is very much true. In today’s society these men have release, the women are sluts, for if they continued to dress this way without conceeding sexual relations there would be far more incidents than are reported.
Women are to blame for the deterioration and decay of society and will be responsible for the end on Planet Earth. Throguhout history they were enforcers of decency among favored people, married at 15 and used to contain men’s behavior in the context of society, and as we slipped into the indecency of patriarchy the women relinquished control.
The gods did this all to you. They used their tool of xtainity to achieve it. And it fits their agenda for decay, allowing them to ultimately justify Apocalypse.
Don’t forget:::Whether war, slavery, torture, any holocaust, crack babies, drive by shootings, AIDS or any other misery inflicted on mankind throughout history know the gods did this to you out of punishment, for evil of your current and past lives.
The gods are control freaks who micromanage through their technology. The “Man in the Moon” feature illustrating their benevolence quite frankly is inaccurate in the dying days of this or any planet.
A victim of the god’s irresponsible use of their power::::
The gods selected their prophets, used their powers to make it happen, abandoned their prophets and left them stranded to die.
Considered necessary for positioning despite destroying my youth and my life, taking my health was a fatal mistake. Now I am unable to defend myself.
The Crucible:::”Go along” with positioning or die.
-The exploited. The gods suggest they will only telepathically admitt any of this is true (based on level of favor) only after I die.
Why telepathic? Why does this Situation have to be nearly exclusively telepathic???:::
1. To minimize obligation and compensation to the victim (me)
2. To maintain control and decide who receives it based on some subjective factors.
You’d be amazed how many immediately delete this spam in their blog and/or think they are “earning” by receiving it from me.
I went to an evil church as a child. xtiainity is all evil, and Catholisism is the root of all xtianity.
The gods had me throw a Damien Omen-style fit in church as a clue. Typical for their duality, positioning in the context of The Matrix, they sold it as I was evil acting up in church. The truth is just the opposite, that this was a wicked place, used to destroy cultures around the world and level all people’s playing field under the single banner of Western patriarchy, preparing the disfavored “left behind” for the Apocalypse.
Being who I am I see the ugliest of the gods, violating decency and human dignity, disregarding morality and right/wrong, just so they can position perceptions and pull of this theater they have created, so please excuse my bias rooted in resentment, for I will desecrate their name whenever possible.
Fuck religion, it’s full of shit.
The gods prioritize positioning over morality, perception over right and wrong. As a result they have compromised their integrity and remain suspect, unworthy of their pedestal as “gods”.
Immoral immortals.
The symbol of the false god Jesus is a cross. The symbol of the gods is a star, perhaps with a circle. Piss on the star.
Creating hatred was essential to create a real situation, one where the victim would utilize this new tool of the internet to spread the reality we’re faced with. They ruined my childhood, my life, and the product is an enemy. I am the sacrificial lamb, and the gods are my cancer.
You people comply and believe you are friends, falling for temptation and doing evil you shouldn’t be, with only empty, unfulfilled promises to put your hope in. And year after year you stay and wait.
And if you think there is randomness in how these events go you don’t understand the control freak nature of the gods. They got the power to dictate how everything progresses so they form the agenda long beforehand, THOUSANDS OF YEARS AHEAD OF TIME, and instruct Artificial Intelligence to execute the approved agenda. Due to their positioning they are free to walk away from obligation and responsibility, minimizing the benefit we will all receive.
HAd I been the example for the disfavored rather than merely the teacher the gods would have terrorized me throughout what was left of my life (punishment for sins) before I was put down for subsequent reincarnation because I hit my ceiling of progress which they were going to allow. Unfortunately, the disfavored audience would have perceived this on face value and the efforts of my life would have been negated by the gods and their reverse positioning.
You fuckers need an epiphany. Like the species die-offs weren’t enough? The onslaught of natural disasters and tragedies? The East Coast earthquake? How about when we experience an massive closure of churches , beginning in California then spreading across the country?? When that day comes you will have waited too long. It will be too late.
Please see my blog post on this topic: http://www.fidei.org/2012/03/dysfunctional-housewives-of-new-jersey.html
OCPD is impossible to live with — I live with it. And the rigidity and coldness is not something I see in Caroline. She laughs with her kids and people enjoy being around her. The number one way to tell if someone has OCPD is OCD hurts the people with it, OCPD hurts those around her. There would be no difference between how she treated her sons versus Teresa if she had it. She’s just a moralistic, judgmental witch. That’s all.
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